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Senran Kagura Burst is damaging the industry - here's how to stop it

ONM Blogger Chris Rooke brawls with a brawler

Normally when I'm writing a blog, I start with a rather wistful, waffly introduction about the topic I'm going to discuss. Not today. Senran Kagura Burst is a fundamentally degrading game, and you shouldn't buy it or support it in any way. Here's why.

Editor's note - we won't be running Chris' blog with any images of the game, for reasons that'll become pretty vivid.

In case you hadn't been able to tell from the box art, Senran Kagura involves playing as female high school students who fight their way past crazy monsters. If that was the full description, that would probably be fine. Unfortunately, it's not.

For starters, lets look at the characters in the game. All of them are conventionally attractive anime characters. So why is this a problem? I wrote about this in a previous of ONM:

'Look at the role of women in gaming, for example. They're almost always portrayed as busty, slim, attractive people - an almost impossible feat in real life. The more non-realistic the graphics, the worse the problem can be - Dead or Alive comes to mind as a recent perpetrator. It's an incredibly damaging portrayal of the "stereotypical" women, and may explain why fewer women are interested in playing games or working in the gaming industry.'

This game exemplifies every single one of those problems, and more. It's one thing to be heaping more pressure upon young women to conform to this stereotypical trend of "attractiveness", as can be seen in films or TV shows. To have another form of entertainment supporting those images alone is thoroughly disappointing.

And yet, Senran Kagura goes one step further: it does not simply include busty characters just for the sake of it, but actually goes about making a huge deal out of it. The characters all wear short skirts or just underwear, with low cut blouses - clothes that are not known for keeping out the cold. When their special attacks are used, a cutscene activates which involves all of the girl's clothes (except underwear) flying off her body before she attacks her enemies. The camera then spends a few seconds spiralling around the girl's nether-regions and breasts before continuing the game. Clearly, women can only be super effective when exposing as much skin as possible.

(A brief note: my use of the word 'girl' is absolutely not meant in a derogatory sense - the characters featured in Senran Kagura are high school students, presumably meaning that they are 18 years old or younger. Which is highly disturbing in and of itself, to be honest.)

When was the last time you saw a fully-clothed male character have to strip down to his tighty-whiteys in order to deal a devastating blow to an enemy? Or indeed, when did a game make a big deal out of the fact that a male character was wearing few clothes? I can't recall any game that I've played where a man's crotch was the sole focus of the camera at all, let alone for a noticeable period of time.

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  1. jaco_p Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 09:44

    Excellent article, if a little vitriolic! I think i brought this point up after an article about the project zone X. Most girls wouldn't play this, nor most men hopefully. Why can't game developers/writers cast strong females in roles(Ellen Ripley, Samus Aran, Michonne, Nausicaa, Mononoke?), so much more interesting than a walking pair of boobs. Plenty of places for that sort of thing, not in videogames please :-D

  2. threepartwarrior Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 09:57

    Firstly, I agree with you 100%. Females have traditionally been uses as nothing more than a way to get boys to play the game. however, this is changing. Zelda and peach are no longer the damsel in distress they were. a few years ago, we saw the release of the first assassin's creed with a female protagonist. (don't get me started on violence in games, that's another issue entirely). Just out of interest, how many of the employees at ONM are female?

  3. Master of Mobius Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 10:32

    In defense of Code of Princess the game parodies various RPG cliches including the female warrior in the scantily clad "armour". A few of the other characters mention how ridiculous it looks (especially her brother unsurprisingly) Solange herself is actually the only character who likes the outfit naively defending it as "the latest royal fashion". Meanwhile the rest of the female cast are not shown to be in "sexy" clothing (Ali is fairly light on clothing but this is because she is a thief just look up an image and you'll see its not done for fanservice.) To lump COP in with the likes of DOA or this Senran Kagura Burst which have entire casts of busty women in ridiculous outfits is totally unfair I understand if you simply saw some screenshots and artwork you could write it off as one of "those" games but I'd say that's more a fault of marketing than the game itself.

    Code of Princess is a fun, tongue in cheek brawler I'm happy it got to Europe and would happily buy a sequel.

  4. EricKotorac Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 11:00

    This is one of the most stupidest things I've ever read. It is people like you who are ruining our gaming society by making up a bunch of crap ASSUMING that this game objectifies women. HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOUR! You're not a feminist so don't act one. They will continue to make games like this and I hope the popularity of it will go higher just to p**s off idiots like yourself.

    People. Buy this game. It is VERY good. Chris Rooke completely missed the point and I've never facepalmed so hard after reading this "article". Pure trash of an article if you ask me.

    You ought to be a shamed of yourself, Chris.

  5. majinmito Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 11:03

    Im bying this game plus Dragon Crown and every Atelier, Dead or Alive and every Platinum and Atlus game out there to show feminazis that they will never win and need to stop trying to ruing things for others. If you dont like a game dont buy it! There is plenty of games like Mass Effect, Candy Crush and Gone Home for <deleted>

  6. Ynni Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 11:16

    This is one of the most stupidest things I've ever read. It is people like you who are ruining our gaming society by making up a bunch of crap ASSUMING that this game objectifies women. HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOUR! You're not a feminist so don't act one. They will continue to make games like this and I hope the popularity of it will go higher just to p**s off idiots like yourself.

    People. Buy this game. It is VERY good. Chris Rooke completely missed the point and I've never facepalmed so hard after reading this "article". Pure trash of an article if you ask me.

    You ought to be a shamed of yourself, Chris.

    Do you believe in equality for men and women?

    If so, you are a feminist too. Your post is one of the "most stupidest" (as you put it - seriously, two superlatives? Learn to grammar!) things I've ever read too. Well done to ONM for sticking their neck out and allowing this to be posted - it's certainly not something you see every day.

  7. Chaos Zero Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 11:23

    I'm assuming this is a Japanese developed game coz if it is, well, this kind of stuff happens constantly in Japan. Not all Japanese developed games are like this, but these games are designed for a certain audience, something that also exists here given it's been localised. There are plenty of animes and videogames that do similar things; we just don't know about them because they usually don't sell outside of Japan. Also, I doubt one game is going to damage the whole industry and I personally have not seen any advertising for this game. If it does sell well, it probably won't be Mario Galaxy levels - I doubt the general gamer will consider buying this. The only people who are likely to buy it are its intended audience. I don't know what this audience is or what its like but it exists. I get why someone would find this game demeaning or insulting but, again, Japan has different standards, and if you really detest the game this much, ignore it. Let it fall into the vacuum of obscurity. I doubt anyone will remember it in a year's time

  8. pinkgamer634 Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 11:32

    *Claps*

  9. Tlink7 Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 11:36

    While I hate it when women don't wear any sensible clothing or armour in games (especially in MMOs: the plate bikini from World of Warcraft comes to mind), it's probably a thing that won't go away unless no more boys are born... ever. Perhaps it'll be less popular in the future, but it's probably here to stay I'm afraid. <.<

  10. RollyKahn Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 12:13

    I fail to see how attractive women with unrealistic proportions (seriously, no one has eyes that big! And where is her nose? And why is her chin so pointy) in an unrealistic art style is "damaging" to women Mr. Rooke.

    The idea that these are somehow damaging rolemodels for little girls fails on its face because precisely ZERO of the games you mentioned were intended for little girls (Dead or Alive, the one which you seem most fixated on, is rated M, which means no chain retailer will sell it to a minor without parental approval). The problem with unhealthily skinny models is that fashion magazines and their ilk ARE aimed at girls and women primarily and feature what appear to be real women.

    The 45% statistic Mr. Rooke claims only occurred after a MAJOR shift in the criteria (it added mobile games, which vastlyh skews the stats and ceases to provide useful information). Before that change, the actual numbers were much lower (not insignificant, but lower). Even if we DID take it as valid, Mr. Rooke seems to claim a game should not target a niche, and that a company should not make what a dedicated group of buyers WILL buy, and that it must make ONLY something that will appeal to "everyone", regardless of how completely impossible that is. Almost nothing has a 50/50 male/female demographic, and for the few things that do, the demographics of the male audience and the female audience are quite different in age, occupation ect.


    I find it extremely unlikely that any female gamer is going to be drawn in by the proliferation of breasts throughout the game and it's accompanying art

    GIRLS CAN'T LOVE GIRLS! Nevermind that the remaining girls may just be plain old apathetic to the art choice: most art choices aren't big turn ons or turn offs to people. (The only games I've avoided strictly on art style are ones that hurt my eyes like Human Revolution, and I've never played a game strictly on the art style.)

    The game can also appeal to women in other areas even if that was true. SKB is surprisingly story heavy, where each girl has a distinct personality and character development.

    The characters all wear short skirts or just underwear, with low cut blouses - clothes that are not known for keeping out the cold.


    Firstly, no character wears "just underwear" in Burst, while only 2 (Yumi and Hikage) wear anything close to a "low cut blouse". Secondly, the game indicates it takes place in the summer, or possibly spring, and definitely does not take place in the winter: Beaches are crowded, everyone wears a summer uniform, outdoor sports are played, lakes are liquid and trees have foliage, none of which are characteristic of winter and most would exclude fall too. No one cares about "keeping out the cold" in the middle of summer in a country as far south as Nihon.

    Clearly, women can only be super effective when exposing as much skin as possible


    Have you played the game Mr. Rooke? Clothing damage gives no advantage whatsoever, and in-fact causes the damage a character takes to increase (and in all but the longest missions, indicates you took too much damage to get a good rank for it).

    When was the last time you saw a fully-clothed male character have to strip down to his tighty-whiteys in order to deal a devastating blow to an enemy?

    When I played Ar Tonelico 3 Mr. Rooke.

    And yet, in the last couple of years we've had Dead or Alive Dimensions, Code of Princess, and now this

    Kinu Nishimura, the artist for CoP, is a woman. I think she understands women more than you do Mr. Rooke.

    but can still acknowledge that this form of entertainment is foul.

    Actually Mr. Rooke, complaining about women being showing off their bodies is NOT aligned with classic feminism, which has long held the view that a women is allowed to be sexy if she wants to. Being attractive does not make a woman inferior to men.

  11. Cinaclov Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 12:33

    I think this is the first time I've read anything even remotely of this vein on ONM. I've always gotten the impression that articles even faintly controversial don't have a place here; I can understand an official Nintendo site ignoring any financial failures of Nintendo but the news about GAME going into administration (at the very least meaning Mario Party whatever wasn't available) didn't even get covered. So this was a nice surprise, thankyou :)

  12. EricKotorac Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 12:39

    This is one of the most stupidest things I've ever read. It is people like you who are ruining our gaming society by making up a bunch of crap ASSUMING that this game objectifies women. HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOUR! You're not a feminist so don't act one. They will continue to make games like this and I hope the popularity of it will go higher just to p**s off idiots like yourself.

    People. Buy this game. It is VERY good. Chris Rooke completely missed the point and I've never facepalmed so hard after reading this "article". Pure trash of an article if you ask me.

    You ought to be a shamed of yourself, Chris.

    Do you believe in equality for men and women?

    If so, you are a feminist too. Your post is one of the "most stupidest" (as you put it - seriously, two superlatives? Learn to grammar!) things I've ever read too. Well done to ONM for sticking their neck out and allowing this to be posted - it's certainly not something you see every day.

    LOL. I believe in equality but I don't act stupid like this author. Anyways, I like how you target my grammer (even though it was to express how stupid this 'article' is). Don't make a fool out of yourself next time please. :)

  13. EricKotorac Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 12:58

    Actually Mr. Rooke, complaining about women being showing off their bodies is NOT aligned with classic feminism, which has long held the view that a women is allowed to be sexy if she wants to. Being attractive does not make a woman inferior to men.

    Could NOT have put this better myself.

  14. vtheyoshi Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 13:03

    Yeah, no. As others have said, have a sense of humour, and for god's sake, you're a guy, Chris, stop White-Knighting. Feminists, generally the overly vocal ones, are ruining EVERYTHING.

  15. alexjones94 Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 13:04

    I fail to see how attractive women with unrealistic proportions in an unrealistic art style is "damaging" to women Mr. Rooke.
    The 45% statistic Mr. Rooke...
    Mr. Rooke seems to claim a game should not target a niche...
    Have you played the game Mr. Rooke?
    When I played Ar Tonelico 3 Mr. Rooke.
    Kinu Nishimura, the artist for CoP, is a woman. I think she understands women more than you do Mr. Rooke.
    Actually Mr. Rooke, complaining about women being showing off their bodies is NOT aligned with classic feminism...

    You do know that constantly referring to the author's name for no apparent reason doesn't bolster your argument in any way, right?
    Either way, you've totally missed the point of the article. The boxart alone makes it quite clear that this is a game whose sole intent is to titillate gamers with scantily-clad schoolgirls. It perpetuates the idea that we're all socially inept teenage boys whose only means of arousal is through distasteful muck like this, and I, as a gamer, find that personally offensive.
    The assertion that the game's characters are promoting feminism is, frankly, nonsense - they're not being sexy out of any sort of liberation, they're constructed by the developer as a tool to arouse the target market; they're the very definition of objectification.

  16. Smyrlie Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 13:21

    LOL. I believe in equality but I don't act stupid like this author. Anyways, I like how you target my grammer (even though it was to express how stupid this 'article' is). Don't make a fool out of yourself next time please. :)


    *Grammar :lol:

  17. Zabba 2 Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 13:39

    This is an interesting opinion piece Chris, but I feel the level of contempt you're channelling towards Senran Kagura is a little misguided. From what I've seen of the game and from what you have clearly described, the game is over-the-top and just plain silly in both design and concept. I have to disagree that such levels of unrealism are damaging to women/female gamers because I think women are more than capable at acknowledging a bunch of wide-eyed, big-breasted anime characters as being profoundly fanciful and not something to aspire to. You appear to gloss over this element of the issue, seemingly assuming women will automatically be damaged by this game and not have a degree of common sense. Although, I'm certain that this was not your intention.

    I think it's when you mix the stereotypical qualities of attractive women with an air of realism that problems begin to unfold. A good example of this would be the design of Quiet from MGS5. The reveal came just before or just after Hideo Kojima outright said he wanted more 'erotic' characters (which he later attempted to clarify as taken out of context, but that's what always happens) so more females would attend expos in cosplay. I feel something like that has more disturbing implications about the nature of females in video games than something as intentionally silly as Senran Kagura.

    When their special attacks are used, a cutscene activates which involves all of the girl's clothes (except underwear) flying off her body before she attacks her enemies. The camera then spends a few seconds spiralling around the girl's nether-regions and breasts before continuing the game. Clearly, women can only be super effective when exposing as much skin as possible.

    This extract was interesting to read because this draws many parallels with Bayonetta, but Bayonetta isn't mentioned in the blog.

    Lastly you have to remember that Senran Kagura is a niche title with a very specific intended audience. The fact that it is very rare a game like this gets localised is a testament to that. Senran Kagura isn't getting to the top of the chart any time soon, it isn't going to be heavily advertised, if at all, and, given the nature of the box art (which I'm surprised you didn't dwell on more in the blog), I doubt many retailers would even stock it in highly visible locations for fear of getting complaints from a number of shoppers.

    Is the game a little perverted and in bad taste? Absolutely.

    Is it damaging to the female sex? I'd say it's simply too obscure and too over-the-top to be taken remotely seriously, so no. The portrayal of women in video games and the damage that has is certainly a relevant and valid issue, but it's things like the Quiet scandal that are the real culprits.

  18. carnivine chaos Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 13:53

    I'm all for equality, but this is dumb. It's a game. Similarly for films and tv shows, they're just that, why anyone would be stupid enough to be so influenced by media like this is beyond me. People have a choice of what to be influenced by, people know the difference between right and wrong. If people are honestly influenced by this game into believing that this is how women should be and ogle them for it, then they're just bad people. It's like a parent blaming the Saw films for why her 10 year old kid is traumatized. No, it's not the media's fault, it's the parent's fault. Yes, if it wasn't there in the first place then it wouldn't be a possibility, but then what? Get rid of all media that isn't safe for kids and portrays definite equality? We'd all be bored out of our skulls. I'm not saying Senran Kagura Burst is a necessity to society, but it's not exactly going to drastically change the world. It's a joke the way you make it seem like it's the worst thing to ever happen in media.

    As for equality, you state that 45% of gamers are female and strongly imply that they'd never buy this game? Why would that be Mr. Rooke? I think I've made my point.

  19. scott1and Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 14:04

    I would just like to point out that feminism, ultimately, strives for equality for both men and women. Sexuality is a thing for both me and women, regardless of whether a lot of people like to admit it or not. And because of that things like this will always exists, as will adult content in general. It has been around since the dawn of civilization, after all. The Romans were all for this sort of thing, they'd probably hang the box art on their walls or chisel it into some marble.

    Now, I'm not saying Chris is one of those people. I think he's pretty cool, actually, and his argument had some very good points. But for those people blaming the 'feminazi's' for ruining all your fun, feminism isn't really about making it so that men should be punished for thinking certain things about women. I mean, we do, and that's cool, but so do homosexual women. It's about, among other things, getting society to the point where both genders are treated equally.

    Right now, a women wearing a short skirt apparently gives men the right to ogle her, degrade her and possibly do something worse. And when it is fought against, people will blame the woman for wearing the short skirt in the first place. True feminists want society at the awesome point where they aren't punished for doing the same things men can do. If men are allowed to just wander around in shorts and such and not be at risk of being raped, then neither should they.

    Or to translate, they want the world at the point where men and certain women can have a game like this and enjoy it, just as long as they don't think real women should be treated like meat because of the content of the game. And as an added bonus, they don't get shunned for playing the same game if it had hunky men in fine suits getting stripped down to the underpants.

    I mean, if I am wrong, please calmly tell me so so I've learned something from all of this, but doesn't that sort of world sound kind of cool? And I know this game could handle the content a little better, but I was talking about this sort of game in a general sense for the most part.

  20. Time-Bomb Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 14:07

    I's quite refreshing to see an opinion piece like this here on ONM. Although after reading the comments I'd have to say a bigger problem, and one which is more damaging to women, is simply the fact that so many young gamers don't know what feminism is! So many here seem to have read the word feminist and assumed you're some sort of evil fun-ruining anti-gamer. Which is obviously just stupid and hidiously misinformed.

    More on topic, and interesting rebuttal to your argument could perhaps be to point out the standard form of men in videogames. The portly red and blue plumber aside, nearly every male protagonist comes in the form of a 6ft, muscular, square jawed model. Does this damage the way young males view themselves? Sure their clothes don't come off (usually) but even some feminists would argue that men are simply more aligned to the image of strength, whilst women are to beauty, and thus clothing is irrelevant in the case of males.

    A well written piece though, and congratulations for having the balls to say what you believe.

  21. Hero_Of_Moga Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 14:24

    This is one of the most stupidest things I've ever read. It is people like you who are ruining our gaming society by making up a bunch of crap ASSUMING that this game objectifies women. HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOUR! You're not a feminist so don't act one. They will continue to make games like this and I hope the popularity of it will go higher just to p**s off idiots like yourself.

    People. Buy this game. It is VERY good. Chris Rooke completely missed the point and I've never facepalmed so hard after reading this "article". Pure trash of an article if you ask me.

    You ought to be a shamed of yourself, Chris.

    Do you believe in equality for men and women?

    If so, you are a feminist too. Your post is one of the "most stupidest" (as you put it - seriously, two superlatives? Learn to grammar!) things I've ever read too. Well done to ONM for sticking their neck out and allowing this to be posted - it's certainly not something you see every day.


    well said Ynii. for those of you who disagree with this article, chris mentions that these games treat women as objects and I'm fairly sure you wouldn't like it if you were treated as an object to be oogled at by the opposite sex, they may not be real people but these games are teaching people that women are objects to be oogled at and that is completely wrong.

  22. zaldor Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 14:31

    I certainly don't agree that the game is alienating girls/women from gaming simply because they aren't the target audience. Just like Girls' Fashion Shoot for 3DS doesn't alienate boys/men, it just isn't targeted at them. Besides, I think that those fashion games are more worthy of critique than Senran Kagura Burst from a feminist point of view.

    It's also worth to note that a character isn't automatically objectified whenever it's portrayed as sexy. Sexiness can just be one of many positive traits about the character. It doesn't have to be unattractive to have a personality or to be desired or appreciated for more than the sex appeal. That being said I don't know how the characters in Senran Kagyra Burst are protrayed, but following the advice of the blogger I will never find out.

  23. TheVelvetRoom Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 15:17

    You have every right to consider the game gross and tasteless in it's sexualisaton, but claiming this sort of thing damages the industry is a bit much. This is an incredibly niche game for a niche crowd. Its existence doesn't invalidate the effects of games that portray their female lead characters with dignity and sensitivity. The existence of Zombie Strippers doesn't damage the film industry, or invalidate films like Amelie or Sophie's Choice.

    Now I can definitely agree that Senran Kagura is stupid, and for most folks will be uncomfortable with its attempts to be sexy; but it's for a specific audience. As I said; it's a niche game. You can safely ignore this and it won't stop your Tomb Raiders or Bioshock Infinites from being hits. So give this game a bad review all you want, but it's ridiculous to claim this will harm gaming. Sexy games shouldn't inherently be seen as a problem, and this isn't RapeLay.

    Maybe the industry does sexualise women to a widespread degree, but it's not the crisis bloggers have been on their high horses about for the last 2 years. I'm all for creators eroticising their characters, though personally I'd like to see it happen with male characters already. That's the real issue. The industry isn't equal because the female/gay male gaze has next to no presence. So instead of chastity, what gaming needs is diversity.

  24. Anna Suigintovna Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 15:44

    Hitler was right.

  25. Capt_Anders Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 16:09

    I fail to see how attractive women with unrealistic proportions (seriously, no one has eyes that big! And where is her nose? And why is her chin so pointy) in an unrealistic art style is "damaging" to women Mr. Rooke.

    The idea that these are somehow damaging rolemodels for little girls fails on its face because precisely ZERO of the games you mentioned were intended for little girls (Dead or Alive, the one which you seem most fixated on, is rated M, which means no chain retailer will sell it to a minor without parental approval). The problem with unhealthily skinny models is that fashion magazines and their ilk ARE aimed at girls and women primarily and feature what appear to be real women.

    The 45% statistic Mr. Rooke claims only occurred after a MAJOR shift in the criteria (it added mobile games, which vastlyh skews the stats and ceases to provide useful information). Before that change, the actual numbers were much lower (not insignificant, but lower). Even if we DID take it as valid, Mr. Rooke seems to claim a game should not target a niche, and that a company should not make what a dedicated group of buyers WILL buy, and that it must make ONLY something that will appeal to "everyone", regardless of how completely impossible that is. Almost nothing has a 50/50 male/female demographic, and for the few things that do, the demographics of the male audience and the female audience are quite different in age, occupation ect.


    I find it extremely unlikely that any female gamer is going to be drawn in by the proliferation of breasts throughout the game and it's accompanying art

    GIRLS CAN'T LOVE GIRLS! Nevermind that the remaining girls may just be plain old apathetic to the art choice: most art choices aren't big turn ons or turn offs to people. (The only games I've avoided strictly on art style are ones that hurt my eyes like Human Revolution, and I've never played a game strictly on the art style.)

    The game can also appeal to women in other areas even if that was true. SKB is surprisingly story heavy, where each girl has a distinct personality and character development.

    The characters all wear short skirts or just underwear, with low cut blouses - clothes that are not known for keeping out the cold.


    Firstly, no character wears "just underwear" in Burst, while only 2 (Yumi and Hikage) wear anything close to a "low cut blouse". Secondly, the game indicates it takes place in the summer, or possibly spring, and definitely does not take place in the winter: Beaches are crowded, everyone wears a summer uniform, outdoor sports are played, lakes are liquid and trees have foliage, none of which are characteristic of winter and most would exclude fall too. No one cares about "keeping out the cold" in the middle of summer in a country as far south as Nihon.

    Clearly, women can only be super effective when exposing as much skin as possible


    Have you played the game Mr. Rooke? Clothing damage gives no advantage whatsoever, and in-fact causes the damage a character takes to increase (and in all but the longest missions, indicates you took too much damage to get a good rank for it).

    When was the last time you saw a fully-clothed male character have to strip down to his tighty-whiteys in order to deal a devastating blow to an enemy?

    When I played Ar Tonelico 3 Mr. Rooke.

    And yet, in the last couple of years we've had Dead or Alive Dimensions, Code of Princess, and now this

    Kinu Nishimura, the artist for CoP, is a woman. I think she understands women more than you do Mr. Rooke.

    but can still acknowledge that this form of entertainment is foul.

    Actually Mr. Rooke, complaining about women being showing off their bodies is NOT aligned with classic feminism, which has long held the view that a women is allowed to be sexy if she wants to. Being attractive does not make a woman inferior to men.

    You can say Mr. Rooke as much as you want, use words like ilk, and talk about classic feminism all you wish but you are wrong. Your argument to justify this is not acceptable and is almost pitiful, this is clearly not marketed at girls (although some may like it) it is a pervy game for teenage boys. All games have plots, but people don't buy NUTS for the articles, take away the girls in this and you have a shell of a game. Show this to pretty much any female (non gaming and gaming) and say you like it for its storyline and you will probably get a slap. Its games like this which perpetuate the idea that games are for teenage boys full of swords, guns, and girls alienating most females from gaming. Buy the game if you wish but please don't attempt to justify it, you know what you are buying a cheap glimpse up a school girls skirt.

  26. TheDiaport Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 16:18

    I'm actually surprised and disappointed an article as silly as this is on the Official Nintendo Magazine website. I guess it's a slow news day?

    Let me get this straight: my fantasy game has fictitious characters who look attractive? If I'm playing a video game, I don't want to play a game that has characters that aren't nice to look at. Sure, it'd be a great laugh to be able to play a 300 pound man-hippo in Fire Emblem: Awakening, but I don't think anyone wants to look at something that isn't visually appealing. If I'm spending $34.99 on a video game, I don't want to have to look at ugly characters for more than ten hours.

    If we're going to talk about female characters looking too beautiful and sexy, why can't we look at men, too? Every time I play my copy of Shin Megami Tensei 4, I find myself offended at how attractive the male characters are. You know, they're thin, they have good hair and handsome faces. To a 300 pound man-hippo like myself, this is nothing but offensive. It sets some sort of standard that I need to be thin, have good hair and a handsome face to be beautiful. Or what about Fire Emblem: Awakening?

    Chris can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy, and it's actually very disgusting. Video game journalism at it's finest.

  27. Switzerninmaster Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 16:23

    Yeah, no. As others have said, have a sense of humour, and for god's sake, you're a guy, Chris, stop White-Knighting. Feminists, generally the overly vocal ones, are ruining EVERYTHING.

    Clearly Chris is trying to stop your enjoyment of video games, CLEARLY. HOW DARE YOU CHRIS, I MEAN, MR. ROOKE.

  28. alexjones94 Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 16:33


    Let me get this straight: my fantasy game has fictitious characters who look attractive? If I'm playing a video game, I don't want to play a game that has characters that aren't nice to look at.

    There's a big difference between having attractive lead characters and the repulsive voyeurism this game seems to offer.

  29. ThatOneChap Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 16:34

    I don't even own a 3DS and I haven't bought Nintendo games in quite a while.

    But I'm buying this. I dislike the game and I think it's crude and questionable and otherwise would not have purchashed it because I don't like it. But the puritanical whining and social control under the name of 'equality' (where it is promoting anything but) is getting to the point where it's quite frankly disturbing.

    If someone wants to make a game about this, then let them. If you don't like it, don't buy it. The smug self-righteousness rising from this article against what is actually, for all your bluster and panic, a harmless object in the grand scheme of things is really quite disturbing.

    So they're going to get my money and I wish them well because all this article promotes is a culture of self-censorship in fear of being ostracised and condemned. It further reinforces the idea that people cannot distinguish between reality and fantasy (which is quite nonsensical) and promotes viewpoints that actually go quite contrary to the goals of feminism, resembling Victorian puritanism more closely. Dare I also say that quite frankly, it smacks a little of xenophobia and racism.

    I'd also note that all this would do is convince Japanese game developers that the West hates their games meaning it would be harder to convince them to make the effort to send them overseas. The idea that this game 'damages the industry', a little niche title with limited appeal even within Japan, is laughable. What damages the industry is your peculiar brand of self-righteous fervour.

    So well done. You've convinced me to buy this game.

  30. Krakychan Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 16:42

    I really wish people, especially men who want to somehow appear better than others, would stop speaking for me. I am so tired of both sides butting heads over this non-issue. As a 25 year old female I've grown up playing video games of all kinds and I've never, EVER, been put off of a game because of unrealistic, exaggerated or even down right absurd females of any form. Do you know why this doesn't bother me? Because I can separate fantasy from reality. I don't try to compare myself or anyone for that matter to video game characters because they simply are not real and don't have bearing on any kind of real world applications. No guy has ever rejected me for not looking like Katsuragi or not dressing like Haruka. I'm sorry but those who are offended by large breasts or lots of skin have more important issues than the video game. If you don't want to play Panty Quest 8 or Anime Girl Strip Down, don't play it. Don't pretend that every game out there is like this either. You know what is REALLY damaging to the VIDEO GAME industry? "Games" that are not games. That's a whole other topic and I'm not getting into that here.

    It's funny you only hear about this on a select few sites on the internet. I've talked to a lot of women in the real world, of all shapes, sizes, looks etc, even those that don't play games, I have never once heard them mention how video game women are bringing them down or somehow ruining the image of the "real woman." There are real issues facing women in the real world but video game skin and boobs are not it.

  31. nrubyiglith Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 16:43

    Chris, you really shouldn't write articles on games that you haven't played. I personally thought Senran Kagura Burst was a pretty fun game, and I'll definitely buy Senran Kagura 2 when it comes out for the 3DS later. I don't understand what's wrong about a cast of female characters that are physically and emotionally strong, in-control, over-the-top, and sexy. Isn't this the kind of power fantasy a female player would enjoy? Wouldn't these characters be good role-models to girls with how they dedicate themselves to training as hard as they can to become powerful shinobi? And, if not, wouldn't a girl have the common sense to not think they have to be as cute as the characters in the game? Can't they differentiate between fact and fiction? It's only a fantasy game, after all -- Hibari even has cross-shaped pupils that aren't physically possible in real-life.

    You say these kinds of games would "scare off female gamers", but have you actually asked any girls who have played any games in the Senran Kagura series that? You're not even a girl yourself, Chris. You say that 45% of "gamers" are female (without giving a source), but is this statistic of anyone who has played a Facebook flash game in their life? Is this statistic of 3DS owners? Is this statistic of people interested in weeaboo brawler games? From my own experience as a fan of Senran Kagura, none of the girls I know are "intimidated" by the sexual art style of the games or anime. As such, I can only infer that you're speaking from genophobia born of Western culture's Christian influence. America is afraid of the human body. Games where you violently murder people are fine, but games with girls in swimsuits are not.

    But, Chris, you need to remember that Senran Kagura is a Japanese game. If you played it, this would be obvious, as it clearly takes place in Japan and is about ninjas. A good example of you forgetting it's a Japanese game is that you say it's "disturbing" because some of the girls are under the age of consent, but they're only under the age of consent in America; none of the girls are under the Japanese age of consent. You need to judge it by Japanese morals and values, not by the American morals and values that teach you should be ashamed of the human body. In Japan, there are public baths, and it's not considered strange for people to bath together without any sexual connotations. In Japan, you can go into convenience stores and pick up pornography of teenaged girls on magazine racks. In Japan, there aren't sex-negative Feminists that go berserk from seeing a girl in a swimsuit in a video game. In fact, pretty much all pornographic video games are Japanese. Chris, you wouldn't even have written this article about Senran Kagura if Senran Kagura Burst had only been released in Japan. I know this because Senran Kagura Burst isn't even the first Senran Kagura game, and there's games that feature much more "objectified" women than Senran Kagura. (What does that buzzword even mean? Of course they're objectified; human beings are literally objects. How could you not objectify them?)

    I also want to say that XSEED said they were cautious about releasing this game in the West because of its subject matter. Please don't discourage Japanese publishers from translating more niche games by giving them negative feedback on a game you're not even interested in. Even if you don't enjoy Senran Kagura or games like it, other people like me do enjoy them. Thinking that nobody deserves to play a game just because you personally don't like it is just selfish and arrogant. You should tolerate other people's taste in video games and not push the industry towards censoring a developing form of art like they did with Bravely Default.

    In conclusion, you really should not write articles about games you have never played. How could you know enough about a game series to inform others about it when you don't understand how to enjoy the games?

  32. Laf Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 16:44

    Game looks fun, going to buy copy for myself and my best friend.

  33. Nintendo fan 1 Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 16:52

    It was 8 years ago ( anecdote alert ) when I was set a history assignment regarding the death of Emily Davison and we had to analyse sources to answer the question 'what was Emily Davison doing at the Derby in 1913'? One of these sources was from a Times article which was '' This new and glorious creature, truly emancipated by the stern hand of war..... justifying her claim to an equal share of the nations burden". At the time I didn't know what emancipate mean't and once I found the definition, I realised how wrong this article was. Women haven't been free, disgusting social attitudes are still being retained. An 8 year old can simply type in one horrible 4 letter word beginning with p to have its view of women restricted to this sexualised object. Additionally to have my favourite medium of entertainment plagued with misogynistic nudity is disgraceful. What's more disturbing is the comments on this article render this immensely valid point worthless, how wrong you are. Thank you Chris for writing about an issue that needs to be addressed.

  34. Guwuh Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 17:10

    Hitler was right.


    same

  35. Wrathy Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 17:17

    Yeah, no. As others have said, have a sense of humour, and for god's sake, you're a guy, Chris, stop White-Knighting. Feminists, generally the overly vocal ones, are ruining EVERYTHING.

    That means we're winning. ;)

    I'm glad there's so many people signing up to disagree with this post, and you're more than welcome. The article, focusing on a niche game from a culture none of us are really a part of, is nuclear when perhaps the anger would be better moved towards some of the more noteworthy Western franchises which are equally problematic, if not more so, since they sell . To say it's damaging the industry is a huge leap, because I'd frankly never heard of it before this. But viewed more generally, it makes a valid point.

    The treatment of women in video games is overly, unequally hyper sexualised for the entertainment of male gamers.

    That is not inclusive for the vast number of women who enjoy playing video games. (Which I've seen unsourced at 45% - not exactly a small number)

    To counteract it with thin shaming, paternalism and not making female characters at all in case it annoys someone is not the answer. But defending this sort of game isn't exactly going to make society more equal, inclusive and representative of women, because its core selling point is the marginalisation of them.

  36. Exodist Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 17:55

    This game is not damaging the industry one tiny bit. This game, and many other games which focus on sexualisation of female characters, such as Dead or Alive, are all aimed at teenage and adult male audiences. These games cannot be considered in any way to be a role model for young female audiences. This game is targeted at a niche, and not every game can appeal to every single audience. This game was created for a male audience, and in order to appeal to that audience, it features attractive characters. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we can't make games that appeal to men and women, but it's a bit stupid to say EVERY game has to. Why can't we have a few games which have stupid, blatently over the top but fun sexy characters that we can look at every so often? If a gamer doesn't like the image the game is portraying, they don't have to play it, and it doesn't actually harm them in any way. Another point is that the game is from Japan. It's a bit unfair to place western values and morals onto a game created with the Japanese market in mind. This game was clearly created for a market which already has plenty of other games just like this one, and they're perfectly acceptable. I'm not saying that the game doesn't feature ridiculous ideas of what women are like, because it does. But it's just a bit of ultimately harmless fun that I can pretty much guarantee no young girl is going to end up playing and take seriously. It's a game which appeals to a male fantasy, and I don't really see a problem with it. If you don't like it, don't buy it, don't play it. But it is in no way having a negative impact on the games industry.

    I also wanted to add, I've played Shinovi Versus on the Vita, which is I guess a sort of sequel to this, and it's probably even 'worse' in terms of its content compared to the 3DS games. So whilst I haven't played Burst in particular, I have some experience with the series.

  37. OvertlyOptimisti Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 17:55

    (although, if you believe this sort of thing is wrong and you think women should be treated equally to men - congratulations, you're a feminist, welcome to the club!)

    Oh Jesus, this is exactly the kind of thing I would have said back when I was one of those OTT, rampant, religion-hating atheists. Do yourself a favour Chris and stop doing this, because as I learnt myself, it just makes you sound arrogant and it comes across as a desperate attempt to make somebody join your side.

    Though besides that, it was a well-written piece, even if I do disagree with a large chunk of what you said.

  38. CrusaderEsper Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 17:57

    The funny thing is that the author of the article clearly did not play the game beyond the first few missions, because if he had, he would know that the girls are all fully fleshed out characters with backstories, desires, motivations, and storylines. Ironically, the one objectifying them as nothing more than sex objects is the person writing the article. Thankfully we have companies like XSEED that are willing to look past the superficial and realize that what we have is a game with great gameplay and a compelling narrative.

  39. wgrx Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 18:49

    Sir,

    Usually I wouldn't reply to such a **taku-tier clickbait article, but when OMN starts sprouting garbage like this, I think it's time to step up.

    You are completely missing the point. Unlike most other games, where tits and ass are only an extra, Senran Kagura is entirely built around tits and ass. The game literally exists because a Japanese developer wanted to see tits and ass jiggle in glasses-free 3D, and have fun gameplay and some challenge while doing it. You can quote him on that, if you want. Turns out, 'surprisingly' many others want to experience that feast for eyes and thumbs as well.
    Accordingly, putting normal or even ugly girls into the game would defeat the entire purpose of the game.

    Have you seriously written an article that argues that it is wrong to want to see a hot girl in exciting clothes or what's left of them in 3D? That's what it looks like, and I'm left wondering why you would think that. Does the sexual liberation not apply to men (and boys)?

    Games like this are (comparatively) a niche market to begin with, and female players in general are a niche in video games past mobile phone time wasters. So a game like this for women would be in a niche in a niche. You are free to make one, if you see an opportunity there. Why not make a kickstarter? I can't see anyone complaining about it.

    That real women unfortunately don't all look as perfect as in video games is the sad reality we face every day. I mean, real men don't look as perfect as in video games either. Not everyone has a sixpack and a face that makes a woman's hearts melt just by looking at her.

    Starting a sexism debate over video games is absolute bulls**t anyway. Video games are the most advanced form of escapism. We play them precisely, because you can do and experience things in them, you can't in reality. That even applies to simulators. You play simulators, because you will never have a farm, or a train, or an airport, or even gay parents in reality, and this is the only way to experience them. Well, most people will never have a steaming-hot J-cup girl with child-bearing hips standing right in front of them in 3D while making heavy noises and with clothes that magically disappear.

    What you are suggesting is absolute bogus. Does 50 Shades Of Gray alienate men from reading books or damage the book industry? Do Women-Only Gyms alienate men from working out or damage gyms? Does beer alienate women from drinking or ruin the beverage industry? Does Train Simulator 2014 alienate women from playing video games or ruin the video game industry? Gender has a lot of influence on personal preferences like many, many other things. Creating a game that especially caters to preferences (read: tits and ass) that are prevalent with one gender and not the other is not alienating anyone. You can always make a game that caters to the prevalent preferences of the other gender, or a game that caters to both.

    All I'm seeing here is a highly ideological article that does little to justify the opinion presented in it. You practically say it in the first sentence, discussion ends where ideology begins. Your ideology has made you blind for what the game was meant to be from the start: Tits and ass jiggling in 3D. It's not a half-assed cheap extra to attract additional attention. This is literally the core idea from which the game was carefully crafted.

  40. alexjones94 Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 18:57

    Your ideology has made you blind for what the game was meant to be from the start: Tits and ass jiggling in 3D. It's not a half-assed cheap extra to attract additional attention. This is literally the core idea from which the game was carefully crafted.


    And therein lies the problem. No-one's questioning that it's a carefully crafted game; it's carefully crafted to appeal to the kind of people who want to watch 3D (presumably underage) schoolgirls jiggle for their titillation. Turgid stuff.

  41. TheVelvetRoom Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 19:08

    That is not inclusive for the vast number of women who enjoy playing video games. (Which I've seen unsourced at 45% - not exactly a small number)

    Right, I have to take exception with this statistic being constantly carted out. It should be more than evident that whoever conducted this study was using a definition of game much looser than our gamer culture would consider. I have no doubt there are a plentiful amount of women who play PC indies, console hits, RPGs and so on. But I'm not believing 45% of dedicated gamers who play non-social and non-mobile games most days of the week are women. Playing one or two games on Facebook each day doesn't mean you apply to the gamer crowd, or that videogames are one of your interests. It's like saying somebody is a film buff when all they watch are superhero films and the new Paranormal Activity every year. Videogames are huge enough that that many people definitely have a passing interest in Angry Birds or Candy Crush, but the gamer audience; the ones who buy 3DS games, who buy Japanese games, are not those people.

    I know this sounds like me bringing up the "hardcore vs casuals" thing, but it's relevant to this article. Why? Because as Wrathy said; the game is so niche, not even 1% of gamers, let alone female gamers will ever hear of it to even be offended by it's supposedly industry-damaging content. The recent trend among "games journalists" and social justice warriors is to create a controversy out of anything and everything, and I'm disappointed to see this arriving on the frontpage of ONM. Stop acting like this is an industry suffering from an epidemic of woman-hating. The whiners are the ones making this such a hot-button issue to begin with, and it worries me that by the end of the year we'll see nothing but oversensitive sex-negative activists putting their precious goals of equality, before consideration of actual quality. "I'm sorry, Metal Gear can't be Game of the Year because it's yet another game that stars a cishet white male who enjoys the sight of a sexy woman."

  42. MatthewONM Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 19:19

    Hey gang,

    Not to undermine Chris' blog, but I would point out that this is only the opinion of one of ONM's community bloggers, and not necessarily the stance of the magazine staff. Our 'official' opinion of the game will be shared in our review in next month's issue. Of course, welcome to new forumites who've joined to debate this - it has made for... fascinating reading.

    Matthew

  43. LewiiG Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 19:24

    This has to be the stupidest thing I have ever read on ONM. Jeez, why do some people take stuff like this so seriously. Ugh I just don't even know where to start with types like the author of this article...Screw it, I am not even going to. I swear to god I am going to buy this game now just because the article told me not to. I was waiting for a review anyway (yes, which I will read) to decide whether I should buy it or not.

    Seriously man, I could write an essay, but I'm tired of writing the same stuff when I see "ban detrimental games" articles like this. Just know this; games are meant to be fun. They are a realization of what is not possible in real life. They are NOT real life, and games should not be modelled around real life. No one should complain, or be affected, because people with brains can seperate fantasy and real life. You should not be telling people to buy something they might be fans of. Games like this will always exist (thanks to Japan mainly xD, where they are relatively normal and numerous compared to here), and you can't stop them, because they have fans; an audience that are to be satisfied.

    Dead or Alive is one of the best fighters in the world, Senran Kagura might be a good game. Does this not make sense? Dead or Alive would be the same great game even if there wasn't any fanservice. Same for Senran Kagura if it is. But why go for such a boring approach? You may as well add some flair for the icing on the cake. When you design something, usually it's meant to be attractive, you know. Senran Kagura seems "worse" for fanservice than DoA, but who is complaining? You and grandmothers from the last couple of generations probably. Screw if developers did not have the freedom to do whatever they wanted.

    I'll just stop now as I doubt you or anyone who agrees with you will understand what I am typing, likely choking on your nobleman organic teas as you read my post. Just, god, lighten up. This affects nothing cause it's as niche as hell already, and you neither your conservative party will change anything.

  44. Exodist Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 19:49

    Your ideology has made you blind for what the game was meant to be from the start: Tits and ass jiggling in 3D. It's not a half-assed cheap extra to attract additional attention. This is literally the core idea from which the game was carefully crafted.


    And therein lies the problem. No-one's questioning that it's a carefully crafted game; it's carefully crafted to appeal to the kind of people who want to watch 3D (presumably underage) schoolgirls jiggle for their titillation. Turgid stuff.

    Not underage in Japan, the country the game was made for. It's not like they necessarily planned it to be localised, it just happened since XSeed were interested. It's honestly pretty harmless, they're all like 15-16 I believe. You can do much worse.

  45. Nintendo fan 1 Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 19:55

    Dear ONM,
    Please include more contentious topics in future articles, for as Matthew so aptly put this was 'fascinating'.

  46. Wrathy Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 20:01

    That is not inclusive for the vast number of women who enjoy playing video games. (Which I've seen unsourced at 45% - not exactly a small number)

    Right, I have to take exception with this statistic being constantly carted out. It should be more than evident that whoever conducted this study was using a definition of game much looser than our gamer culture would consider. I have no doubt there are a plentiful amount of women who play PC indies, console hits, RPGs and so on. But I'm not believing 45% of dedicated gamers who play non-social and non-mobile games most days of the week are women. Playing one or two games on Facebook each day doesn't mean you apply to the gamer crowd, or that videogames are one of your interests. It's like saying somebody is a film buff when all they watch are superhero films and the new Paranormal Activity every year. Videogames are huge enough that that many people definitely have a passing interest in Angry Birds or Candy Crush, but the gamer audience; the ones who buy 3DS games, who buy Japanese games, are not those people.

    I know this sounds like me bringing up the "hardcore vs casuals" thing, but it's relevant to this article. Why? Because as Wrathy said; the game is so niche, not even 1% of gamers, let alone female gamers will ever hear of it to even be offended by it's supposedly industry-damaging content. The recent trend among "games journalists" and social justice warriors is to create a controversy out of anything and everything, and I'm disappointed to see this arriving on the frontpage of ONM. Stop acting like this is an industry suffering from an epidemic of woman-hating. The whiners are the ones making this such a hot-button issue to begin with, and it worries me that by the end of the year we'll see nothing but oversensitive sex-negative activists putting their precious goals of equality, before consideration of actual quality. "I'm sorry, Metal Gear can't be Game of the Year because it's yet another game that stars a cishet white male who enjoys the sight of a sexy woman."

    I'm fairly sure I conceded that it's an unsourced stat- I've no idea what the study was, because nobody who's referenced has had any idea of academia or how to source things properly. That said, if we take for a moment that it's true, and wonder: why do "casual" games get such a bad press? Or, if women are more likely to play them than "proper" games which receive AAA scores from your favourite sources, why is that? What's the reason behind it?

    I would dearly love to argue that, with that in mind, and shifting our view to more Western titles (though I'm sure there's a very interesting cultural appropriation / we shouldn't defend or allow Eastern misogyny line to take) to critique the representation within games like Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed or Grand Theft Auto Five. I strongly believe that, if we were to actually analyse it with a properly critical hat, gaming is an industry suffering from an epidemic or women hating - not that this makes it exceptional, because the media in general is founded upon patriarchal, male empowering ideas. Alas, I'm writing an essay for a university module on the ethics of sex about why pornography is intrinsically bad and should be banned right now, so you'll hopefully forgive me for not doing tonight.

  47. UnpopularOpinion Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 20:08

    Sigh. It's that time again.

    For starters, it's alienating to women who play games: I find it extremely unlikely that any female gamer is going to be drawn in by the proliferation of breasts throughout the game and it's accompanying art. In fact, this kind of game sends out the message that gaming is only for males, and thus is alienating to women gamers.

    In the same manner, franchises like FIFA and NBA send out the message that gaming is only for sports fans and are alienating to people who don't like sports. And those get a thousand times more publicity than stuff like SK, thus being about a thousand times more damaging. Ban this filth!

    You sir are a muppet.

  48. Vyse86 Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 20:11

    The author of this blog post is obviously not a feminist. As a feminist, you would realize that women don't need a male writer to speak out on their behalf, without even being asked to do so. Women are indeed perfectly capable of forming thoughts of their own, and speaking out if they want to. And they especially don't need a male writer to decide in their stead that this game is offensive; they can make that decision on their own.

    I know two women who play video games. They both know that this game exists, they have seen the cover, but they aren't offended in any way. They actually find it amusing and joke about the title, calling it Senran Kagura BRUST, which is the German word for "chest". Of course they have no interest in playing it because they're obviously not in the target audience, but they're also smart enough to not project one niche title onto the entire games industry.

  49. fangbreaker Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 20:39

    I strongly believe that, if we were to actually analyse it with a properly critical hat, gaming is an industry suffering from an epidemic or women hating - not that this makes it exceptional, because the media in general is founded upon patriarchal, male empowering ideas. Alas, I'm writing an essay for a university module on the ethics of sex about why pornography is intrinsically bad and should be banned right now, so you'll hopefully forgive me for not doing tonight.

    What a relief. Nobody sensible is interested in the things you learned in your Gender Studies "education" anyway.

    Before you want to pull the "gaming is misogynist" line, please find me a single video game that encourages you do violence against women the way that video games do violence against men? Oh that's right, violence against men doesn't count.

    Misogyny is hatred and fear of women, not any portrayal of women you don't like.

  50. Wrathy Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 20:49

    I strongly believe that, if we were to actually analyse it with a properly critical hat, gaming is an industry suffering from an epidemic or women hating - not that this makes it exceptional, because the media in general is founded upon patriarchal, male empowering ideas. Alas, I'm writing an essay for a university module on the ethics of sex about why pornography is intrinsically bad and should be banned right now, so you'll hopefully forgive me for not doing tonight.

    What a relief. Nobody sensible is interested in the things you learned in your Gender Studies "education" anyway.

    Before you want to pull the "gaming is misogynist" line, please find me a single video game that encourages you do violence against women the way that video games do violence against men? Oh that's right, violence against men doesn't count.

    Misogyny is hatred and fear of women, not any portrayal of women you don't like.

    Okay, so let's break this down.

    1) You claim "nobody sensible is interested." What on Earth can this mean? Moreover, why on Earth should I value your non empirical observation? You're speaking for yourself. Not the whole forum.

    2) You bring out this elitist line of my supposed "Gender Studies "education."" Ignoring your elitism towards a discipline you clearly have no respect for, please not it isn't even what I do. I study Politics and Philosophy at a Russel Group university. My degree has a 90% employment rate into a graduate level job within 6 months of graduation. Frankly, if nobody was interested, I wouldn't have a productive, fruitful and well paying career ahead of me.

    3) You assume that I want to pull out a "gaming is misogynist" line without evidence. In the quote above, I explicitly state I don't have time to do this tonight, because I have an essay that actually means something to write and as such can't research a piece that'll no doubt be ignored and scapegoated by self interested people who think I'm attacking their precious fun. You also assume that I'm going to say "violence against men doesn't count", when I haven't made any argument yet.

    4) You try to tell me what misogyny is. I don't need your approval for that. To be honest, if you're classing yourself as 'sensible', then I don't particularly want it either.

  51. TheVelvetRoom Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 20:51

    I would dearly love to argue that, with that in mind, and shifting our view to more Western titles (though I'm sure there's a very interesting cultural appropriation / we shouldn't defend or allow Eastern misogyny line to take) to critique the representation within games like Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed or Grand Theft Auto Five. I strongly believe that, if we were to actually analyse it with a properly critical hat, gaming is an industry suffering from an epidemic or women hating - not that this makes it exceptional, because the media in general is founded upon patriarchal, male empowering ideas. Alas, I'm writing an essay for a university module on the ethics of sex about why pornography is intrinsically bad and should be banned right now, so you'll hopefully forgive me for not doing tonight.

    There's a difference between lack of representation/eroticism, and "hate". It's sexist, sure, but to call it misogyny and woman-hating is a misnomer I feel.

    Though I'm curious as to what you specifically have to say on the types of pornographic/sexualised material where women are not present at all. Sure it's far from the majority of content, but it's still in that category of media either way.

  52. Wrathy Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 20:56

    I would dearly love to argue that, with that in mind, and shifting our view to more Western titles (though I'm sure there's a very interesting cultural appropriation / we shouldn't defend or allow Eastern misogyny line to take) to critique the representation within games like Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed or Grand Theft Auto Five. I strongly believe that, if we were to actually analyse it with a properly critical hat, gaming is an industry suffering from an epidemic or women hating - not that this makes it exceptional, because the media in general is founded upon patriarchal, male empowering ideas. Alas, I'm writing an essay for a university module on the ethics of sex about why pornography is intrinsically bad and should be banned right now, so you'll hopefully forgive me for not doing tonight.

    There's a difference between lack of representation/eroticism, and "hate". It's sexist, sure, but to call it misogyny and woman-hating is a misnomer I feel.

    Though I'm curious as to what you specifically have to say on the types of pornographic/sexualised material where women are not present at all. Sure it's far from the majority of content, but it's still in that category of media either way.

    If sexism isn't misogyny, then what is it? Bearing in mind that discrimination typically happens down a power chain, and therefore in a patriarchal society, sexism is inequality created by males against females.

    What I have to say about male/male pornography isn't of particular interest, because I'm researching this with a narrow focus, but Andrea Dworkin comments that it still operates under a misogynistic anti-woman line because the submissive in the material is portrayed as the more 'feminine', begging to be treated 'like a girl' etc, so I'd assume that it can't operate in a vacuum without the presence of women at all - because it's still a part of society, and society currently has a plurality of genders within it.

  53. arcticace13 Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 21:02

    This is an interesting article. I can see why games like this are seen as derogatory towards woman and I do see a problem with certain games over sexualizing women, but I'll have to disagree that this game and others like it are damaging the industry.

    I mean in this game there are strong female protagonists who have character and backstory and don't rely on help from male characters. Now I'm not saying this game is doing any favours for the industry and yes there are better games for this such as metroid and tomb raider, but in my opinion over-sexualized lead female characters, who are independant and non-reliant on male assistance portray women in a better light than secondary female characters in need of saving or there to be conquered by male protagonists.

  54. RollyKahn Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 21:05

    I fail to see how attractive women with unrealistic proportions in an unrealistic art style is "damaging" to women Mr. Rooke.
    The 45% statistic Mr. Rooke...
    Mr. Rooke seems to claim a game should not target a niche...
    Have you played the game Mr. Rooke?
    When I played Ar Tonelico 3 Mr. Rooke.
    Kinu Nishimura, the artist for CoP, is a woman. I think she understands women more than you do Mr. Rooke.
    Actually Mr. Rooke, complaining about women being showing off their bodies is NOT aligned with classic feminism...

    You do know that constantly referring to the author's name for no apparent reason doesn't bolster your argument in any way, right?
    Either way, you've totally missed the point of the article. The boxart alone makes it quite clear that this is a game whose sole intent is to titillate gamers with scantily-clad schoolgirls. It perpetuates the idea that we're all socially inept teenage boys whose only means of arousal is through distasteful muck like this, and I, as a gamer, find that personally offensive.
    The assertion that the game's characters are promoting feminism is, frankly, nonsense - they're not being sexy out of any sort of liberation, they're constructed by the developer as a tool to arouse the target market; they're the very definition of objectification.


    I never said that is was "promoting feminism". I said that Mr. Rooke's (who I call by name because is it rude and weird to call him just "the author") claims are contrary to feminism. His idea that there aren't ANY (he did not hide his use of an absolute) lesbian gamers who would be attracted to the game's characters is absurd and something I can tell you is simply not true.


    You can say Mr. Rooke as much as you want, use words like ilk, and talk about classic feminism all you wish but you are wrong. Your argument to justify this is not acceptable and is almost pitiful, this is clearly not marketed at girls (although some may like it) it is a pervy game for teenage boys. All games have plots, but people don't buy NUTS for the articles, take away the girls in this and you have a shell of a game. Show this to pretty much any female (non gaming and gaming) and say you like it for its storyline and you will probably get a slap. Its games like this which perpetuate the idea that games are for teenage boys full of swords, guns, and girls alienating most females from gaming. Buy the game if you wish but please don't attempt to justify it, you know what you are buying a cheap glimpse up a school girls skirt.


    Well firstly, thank you for saying "pretty much any female" will resort to physical violence over something as minor as a difference of opinion and that "pretty much any female" will have the same opinion. This is actually very insulting stereotyping and more sexist than any video game could ever hope to be.

    Sure most games have plot, but SK is VERY plot heavy, with a strong focus on characterization, which you would know if you actually played it.

    I actually bought it so XSeed would translate more "risky" games in the future (and it worked, they already teased Akiba's Trip 2 which I planned to import when it went down in price and I doubt they would have picked up such a title without SKB performing above expectations like it did) and to stick it to all the men in video game journalism who try to be an authority on what women want and think.

    The game isn't for "teenage" boys either, it's aimed at adults with a D from CERO (XSeed never intended for it to get a T rating, and was surprised at getting one and fearful it would make people think they censored it).

  55. TheVelvetRoom Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 21:12


    What I have to say about male/male pornography isn't of particular interest, because I'm researching this with a narrow focus, but Andrea Dworkin comments that it still operates under a misogynistic anti-woman line because the submissive in the material is portrayed as the more 'feminine', begging to be treated 'like a girl' etc, so I'd assume that it can't operate in a vacuum without the presence of women at all - because it's still a part of society, and society currently has a plurality of genders within it.

    I disagree entirely, but this probably isn't the time or place to go into that since it's getting off topic.

    If sexism isn't misogyny, then what is it? Bearing in mind that discrimination typically happens down a power chain, and therefore in a patriarchal society, sexism is inequality created by males against females.

    How I've interpreted all these examples of sexism in modern gaming culture is that it's not intentional. The industry does not have malicious intent in how they portray women. They're ill-informed in how they represent females sure, but I seriously doubt they feel any hate towards them. There's nobody sitting in a game developer office going "how can we aim to set-back perception of women today?"

  56. EighteenSky Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 21:17

    Hilariously bad article, would read again.

  57. Wrathy Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 21:34


    What I have to say about male/male pornography isn't of particular interest, because I'm researching this with a narrow focus, but Andrea Dworkin comments that it still operates under a misogynistic anti-woman line because the submissive in the material is portrayed as the more 'feminine', begging to be treated 'like a girl' etc, so I'd assume that it can't operate in a vacuum without the presence of women at all - because it's still a part of society, and society currently has a plurality of genders within it.

    I disagree entirely, but this probably isn't the time or place to go into that since it's getting off topic.

    As I said, I've not researched it. I'm only recalling something I read in passing. My essay is arguing about how material relates to women, so I don't have much to say about it.

    How I've interpreted all these examples of sexism in modern gaming culture is that it's not intentional. The industry does not have malicious intent in how they portray women. They're ill-informed in how they represent females sure, but I seriously doubt they feel any hate towards them. There's nobody sitting in a game developer office going "how can we aim to set-back perception of women today?"

    Intent isn't of particular relevance, and it'd be a particularly large stretch for me to sit here and say that games are produced by a secret group of Illuminati style men at the top of each industry who actively conspire against women. If anything, it's the absence of women at the top levels of society - in the media, in industry, in whatever - which leads to the absence of balance therein. Ignorance is what happens when decisions are made by entirely by people with no experience outside their own background, and no particular interest in educating themselves about others (which, even so, comes with the considerable hurdle of getting over their privileged gaze on the thing and employing empathy). It's the ignorance of males at the top which leads to an unrepresentative picture in society, which in turn creates and perpetuates the patriarchy. If I was proposing a solution, 50:50 employment and equal treatment would be my only reasonable answer, because it's the only way that I can see balance being restored.

  58. snes2 Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 21:56

    They're almost always portrayed as busty, slim, attractive people - an almost impossible feat in real life.


    This sentence makes no sense, just walk down a street the next day and you'll see plenty of attractive people. And being slim isn't impossible either for anyone.

  59. TheVelvetRoom Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 21:58

    If I was proposing a solution, 50:50 employment and equal treatment would be my only reasonable answer, because it's the only way that I can see balance being restored.

    And this is where personally, I feel equality; while nice and fair; just isn't something anybody can be truly satisfied with. I just don't think it's worth fighting vehemently and constantly to make the world bend over backwards to suit such a need. Everybody should be given a fair shake for sure, but I just think it's wrong to enforce and prioritise it over things like genuine skill, knowledge and passion a person possesses for their field. Everybody deserves the right to attempt to get their foot in the door, and they also need to be held up to scrutiny in their approriateness for a role, just as somebody from a more "privileged" position would be.

    The true issue with women and the games industry is not silly games about boobies or the success of franchises with predominantly male leads. It's that there is still nowhere near enough people in this industry that will do justice to respectful female representation. If there are so many people on the internet and in the gamer audience that care so much about this, they really need to take the initiative and find the Jade Raymonds, or become the Amy Hennigs, and make these characters they want to see so badly. At the same time, accept that there will always be an audience for games like Senran Kagura, and that if you stop being so outraged at this ridiculous and obscure game then focus can be given to praising the Tomb Raiders, supporting the progressive games or lashing out at the genuinely abhorrent examples of sexism such as Ride to Hell.

  60. King Slazo Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 22:02

    Interesting article, and bravo for having the gall to post it Rooke.

    Must admit, I've never considered Senran Kagura, or any similar games / anime / other tosh in the feminist light, mainly because I know why they're made, for the people whose grey matter resides in their penis. Nobody is ever going to buy this game off the strength of its narrative or mechanics (and those who think they are are in denial), and the sad truth is that they do sell to their target market, in the same way there are trope games that sell better to female audiences (Nintendogs is the example that comes to mind).

    The problem, and what damages the industry, is the overfocus on veeeery specific games that have a better chance of making their money back. Screw taking a risk, make a game with sexy girls or guns (or both) because that's what sells to the largest demographic, everything else be damned. Whether you want to blame cowardly publishers or stereotypical gamers is up to you, but its not an issue that's ever likely to go away until the next big thing which everybody else will then copy and the cycle carries on and on.

    The shift towards indie should go someway to alievieating the problem as creative individuals who aren't tied down with demographics or publisher demands or even sales in some cases, can make different experiences that you'd never find on the highstreet, and maybe then the clichés of retail games will fade away, but I doubt it.

    In short, Senran Kagura isn't the cause of the problem, its the sympton of a much larger decades old one.

  61. 3try Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 22:06

    I think the REAL issue here is that the game doesn't look that good anyway.

    Its clearly for a niche audience, although the Cover is a bit 2lewd4me

  62. Wrathy Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 22:14

    If I was proposing a solution, 50:50 employment and equal treatment would be my only reasonable answer, because it's the only way that I can see balance being restored.

    And this is where personally, I feel equality; while nice and fair; just isn't something anybody can be truly satisfied with. I just don't think it's worth fighting vehemently and constantly to make the world bend over backwards to suit such a need. Everybody should be given a fair shake for sure, but I just think it's wrong to enforce and prioritise it over things like genuine skill, knowledge and passion a person possesses for their field. Everybody deserves the right to attempt to get their foot in the door, and they also need to be held up to scrutiny in their approriateness for a role, just as somebody from a more "privileged" position would be.

    The true issue with women and the games industry is not silly games about boobies or the success of franchises with predominantly male leads. It's that there is still nowhere near enough people in this industry that will do justice to respectful female representation. If there are so many people on the internet and in the gamer audience that care so much about this, they really need to take the initiative and find the Jade Raymonds, or become the Amy Hennigs, and make these characters they want to see so badly. At the same time, accept that there will always be an audience for games like Senran Kagura, and that if you stop being so outraged at this ridiculous and obscure game then focus can be given to praising the Tomb Raiders, supporting the progressive games or lashing out at the genuinely abhorrent examples of sexism such as Ride to Hell.

    As a critique of the entire structure of society, any feminist will tell you that the things you're arguing for just don't really happen. Women aren't, from birth, given the same educational encouragement that men are, and any progress needs to be given from the ground up. Feminism isn't a simple solution of parachuting in a thousand Karen Bradey figures to executive roles and leaving it there. It demands equality from the fundamentals. As it is now, there's no doubt that there are far more men qualified to be in the top jobs - but that's only because of the patriarchal dominance men have held in both business and schooling from the beginning. And there's no doubt in my mind that we're edging towards equality, as old traditions such as sex segregation in university colleges and courses is slowly broken down. But those are slow, ineffectual changes, and more definitely needs to be done to make equality tangible, and not just something that a million people on the internet complain about because it means the pay gap or the glass ceiling means they have slightly less privilege in the world and isn't it all so unfair. It's a radical proposal which needs a radical solution.

  63. RollyKahn Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 22:16

    lashing out at the genuinely abhorrent examples of sexism such as Ride to Hell.

    The most sickening part is how these "journalists" can't keep consistency and only complain about relatively obscure games, never big titles that have ad money behind them.

    Women as damsels in distress are horrible when it's a cheep plot the writer didn't really care about and wasn't meant to be taken seriously, but when a man needs to escort a girl as a willful purposeful story choice that game depends on, it's suddenly 10/10 GotY because it evokes emotion (we got that at least TWICE in 2013).

  64. LFF Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 22:19

    Overly sexualised female characters are a problem in a number of games (as well as other areas of media) because it's just pandering to the juvenile school boy who wants to see some big breasts. It's objectification that often detracts from the intersecting aspects of a character in favour of titillation.


    Is there are a place for titillation in life? Well yes, but cramming it in so blatantly (often into a game where it makes no sense for the world, gameplay or characters) as a marketing ploy leaves a sour taste in the mouth, especially when it's considered how this looks to outsiders.

  65. jdofthefunk Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 22:27

    Its funny how soon one article can trigger the forum into a heated debate over sexism and equality. Its a game, it shouldn't be tied to reality. I mean, if we're arguing about girls in a videogame being portrayed in a sexual manner, why aren't we angered by one of gaming's most popular figures doing magic mushrooms(sort of)? I'm sure this has already been brought up several times, but it's the truth. This post has had over 50 comments (way more than most articles on the front page of the site) consisting of two opposing forces either agreeing or disagreeing, then proceeding to render each other's statements as incorrect with no conclusion being reached. I suppose, in a way, that's how a lot of the world works. But this has one difference. Senran Kagura is a videogame which will not affect anybody unwillingly. People who like it will buy it, but they will be playing a fictional world and once they stop playing, that world will cease to be. Besides, Japanese imports don't exactly sell well in our country, so I wouldn't expect it to "damage the industry" as a huge amount of the industry will never know of the game.

  66. TheVelvetRoom Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 22:27

    The problem, and what damages the industry, is the overfocus on veeeery specific games that have a better chance of making their money back. Screw taking a risk, make a game with sexy girls or guns (or both) because that's what sells to the largest demographic, everything else be damned. Whether you want to blame cowardly publishers or stereotypical gamers is up to you, but its not an issue that's ever likely to go away until the next big thing which everybody else will then copy and the cycle carries on and on.

    I can see where you're coming from, but the creators of SK in particular are outspoken in that they make these games because it's what they love. Just as a Marvel comics fan will most likely want to create superhero stories of their own; the creators of SK are motivated more by their love of anime girls with big boobies rather than a soulless money-making tactic like "this audience will eat this up if it looks like this, even if the game is garbage".

  67. Argenthor Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 22:55

    Dear ONM,
    Please include more contentious topics in future articles, for as Matthew so aptly put this was 'fascinating'.


    Definitely - this is the most comments I've seen on an article by far for a while.

    Firstly - the Saints Row games have plenty of naked men in (Chris couldn't think of any that focus on the male nether-regions) and are funny.

    I think, as many have pointed out, that the criticism here was slightly too harshly put. I am a man (hopefully that doesnt influence this too much!) but I can't see too much wrong with the use of women in games in a provocative light, as long as it is used well, or in a way that compliments the game it is in. Bayonetta, for example, makes fantastic use of her provocative nature and certainly isn't sexist in my opinion. If it is done in an immature way, simply to have naked girls in it, then that is where it starts to be offensive, misleading and childish.

  68. Shinnos Sunday 19th Jan 2014 at 23:59

    I really wish people, especially men who want to somehow appear better than others, would stop speaking for me. I am so tired of both sides butting heads over this non-issue. As a 25 year old female I've grown up playing video games of all kinds and I've never, EVER, been put off of a game because of unrealistic, exaggerated or even down right absurd females of any form. Do you know why this doesn't bother me? Because I can separate fantasy from reality. I don't try to compare myself or anyone for that matter to video game characters because they simply are not real and don't have bearing on any kind of real world applications. No guy has ever rejected me for not looking like Katsuragi or not dressing like Haruka. I'm sorry but those who are offended by large breasts or lots of skin have more important issues than the video game. If you don't want to play Panty Quest 8 or Anime Girl Strip Down, don't play it. Don't pretend that every game out there is like this either. You know what is REALLY damaging to the VIDEO GAME industry? "Games" that are not games. That's a whole other topic and I'm not getting into that here.

    It's funny you only hear about this on a select few sites on the internet. I've talked to a lot of women in the real world, of all shapes, sizes, looks etc, even those that don't play games, I have never once heard them mention how video game women are bringing them down or somehow ruining the image of the "real woman." There are real issues facing women in the real world but video game skin and boobs are not it.

    I think this sums it all up pretty well, no?

  69. EricKotorac Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 00:04

    Guys. Ignore this article and buy the game because it is actually a very good game. Don't be like Chris and make a fool out of yourself. This is a disgusting article.

  70. TGWTF Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 00:45

    This topic is, in a word, obnoxious. Senran Kagura ruining the industry, is ridiculous, and this blog post fails to change my opinion in any way. I will not speak of sexism (since I haven't given that topic enough thought to form a solid opinion), but what i will speak of is this blog post.

    First off, Senran Kagura isn't ruining the game industry, just because one Japanese brawler with fan-service was released, doesn't mean that the game industry has worsened. Not only is this just one of the many video games that exist, but it isn't even the worst. Rapelay, was a truly vile game (from what I've read in Wikipedia), it was disgusting, and it's existence is a putrid mark that, sadly, will be a part of the history of the game industry for a long time. Senran Kagura features fanservice, but in no way is worth slandering or accusing of ruining this industry. Your claims are exaggerated, bombastic, and foolish. Just because movies tend to feature females as eye-candy, does not mean that females will boycott them, the same applies to gaming.

    On a side note: I'd like to thank you for bringing this game to my attention, my (miniscule) library of 3ds games could use a brawler.

  71. Captain Kuchiki Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 01:25

    A brief history of the game: The producer took one look at the 3DS and in less than a minute, he decided he wanted to see boobs in 3D. I'm not even lying - that is the actual origin of the game.

    I do agree that the issue of the representation of women in mainstream entertainment media (not just games) does really need to change. How many times do we have women appearing in movies to simply be a love interest for the male hero - their "reward" and such? But really, Senran Kagura is the gaming equivalent of picking up an issue of NUTS and complaining about the boobs - that's basically what it's there for. It's a bigger issue when it sneaks itself into something where it doesn't fit like it's meant to be perfectly normal (like a lot of big name blockbuster movies or hell, even the random swimsuits in Fire Emblem: Awakening).

    I believe in equality and equal rights 100% - in fact, I was even an equality representative of the student body back when I was in college. I believe that the two genders should not be denied something the other has, be it equal pay, opportunity of promotion within a company, the freedom of being able to wear what they want without harassment or worse or even something as simple as taking pictures of their children playing in a park without being accused of having an agenda. Admittedly though, maybe I am part of the problem as well? I admittedly do enjoy works of fiction such as anime, manga and games that similar themes to Senran Kagura, but I would absolutely abhor something like it happening in the real world (or even in a more serious work, as I kind of alluded to above). In fact, if I saw someone even looking at a friend of mine in the same way they would a character in this game, the only flesh they'd see would probably be my fist.

    That may sound contradictory and it probably is, but like all forms of media, gaming has prominent examples of extremes being glorified to levels unacceptable in real life - look at the huge success of Call of Duty - a game series about war, the gruesome brutality of games like Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge and heck, about 99% of Grand Theft Auto. So it's understandable that another extreme - sex, would be explored as well. I'm not saying that as an excuse to allow these sort of games to happen (Grand Theft Auto V personally left a bad taste in my mouth - it even has a mini-game where you receive a lap dance and have to keep an eye out on the bouncer to make sure he doesn't kick you out for feeling up the stripper! I haven't touched the game since encountering that), but what I am saying is that while extremes are being explored, all of them will be and while it's either to explore the mentality and philosophy behind them or simply for thoughtless entertainment, the freedom to do is what really defines art. Maybe what we really need is more otome and BL games so that both sides can enjoy the silliness of extremes, just like we can all release our rage by cutting the limbs off pixels in Ninja Gaiden xD.

    Personally, I find the proportions and presentation of Senran Kagura to be too ridiculous to be anything but hilarious. That's why I'm buying the game - not because I find it erotic, but because it just looks incredibly silly. I certainly hope there isn't already a chiropractor in the world of Senran Kagura, because I'd love to take up that opportunity - with breasts that stupidly big, think of the money you could make! xD

    I do have one concern thing though: Although Matthew has come on to state that this opinion piece is only the opinion of the writer and not the ONM team as a whole, considering the current state of Nintendo and its relationship with third parties (those financial forecasts), I do wonder how wise it is for a website with an official connection to Nintendo to have a headline stating that a game is not only damaging to the industry as a whole, but also telling readers not to buy it. I'm not saying these issues should be brushed under the carpet for the sake of financial gain or whatever (hell, how can these issues ever be changed if we never talk about them? Besides, this game won't even make the Top 40 chart) but maybe the presentation is something to think about when discussing similar themes in the future?

  72. RollyKahn Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 01:34

    Yeah, no. As others have said, have a sense of humour, and for god's sake, you're a guy, Chris, stop White-Knighting. Feminists, generally the overly vocal ones, are ruining EVERYTHING.

    That means we're winning. ;)

    Nah, the really annoying ones (which are sadly the most vocal) do nothing but drive people AWAY from actual feminism and hurt the pursuit of equality. Nuts who claim EVERYTHING hurts women, everything is rape imagery ect means that no one will pay attention when something actually IS a problem. Nuts like this already destroyed possibility of the general public taking the idea of "rape culture" (a very real thing in some parts of the world and throughout history) seriously by claiming absolutely ANYTHING was the result of rape culture, and they are very quickly turning the idea of actual misogyny into this too (disagree agree with a woman, even if you are female? You're a misogynist!) .

    It's a very dangerous thing that should be stopped by the simple act of not endorsing it.

  73. samus_killer Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 01:38

    I'd never heard of Senran Kagura Burst before reading this article, but then I felt inclined to watch the "European" trailer to see what all the fuss was about. Suffice to say, it made me laugh. The trailer that is. The article, however is very well written, if a little over zealous.

  74. RollyKahn Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 01:42

    Its funny how soon one article can trigger the forum into a heated debate over sexism and equality.

    Nope. It's far beyond this one article. Claiming something is sexist is just an easy accusation for any hack writer to make and it draws in the views, which leads to more ad views which leads to more money for the hack writer. It's a horribly widespread problem in gaming "journalism".

  75. Wrathy Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 02:41

    Nah, the really annoying ones (which are sadly the most vocal) do nothing but drive people AWAY from actual feminism and hurt the pursuit of equality. Nuts who claim EVERYTHING hurts women, everything is rape imagery ect means that no one will pay attention when something actually IS a problem. Nuts like this already destroyed possibility of the general public taking the idea of "rape culture" (a very real thing in some parts of the world and throughout history) seriously by claiming absolutely ANYTHING was the result of rape culture, and they are very quickly turning the idea of actual misogyny into this too (disagree agree with a woman, even if you are female? You're a misogynist!) .

    It's a very dangerous thing that should be stopped by the simple act of not endorsing it.

    I do find it interesting that you claim there to be an "actual" feminism. I've spent most of my day reading about the divides that come to surface when analysing pornography, and there's dozens of dissenting feminist opinions within it. The idea of a "one true feminism" is a complete myth. It's an academic subject which thrives on debate, discussion and internal (and, to an extent, external) criticism.

    There's no doubt that the general public, who don't have the time for reading (or the privilege of accessing) detailed, decade spanning works, want a quick and easy answer. That's not going to be provided by what Jeffreys dubs the "male stream media", simply because it isn't in the patriarchy's interest to promote anything which dethrones the male in society. This topic is one which could be rich in debate, but because of the structural problems of society you either get isolated pieces like this which are quickly discarded as "silly", for a plurality of reasons ranging from quality of argument to being in a huge minority against an overly representative male opinion, or nothing at all.

  76. ChloeAnn Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 02:56

    This article is completely and utterly ridiculous, and is so misguided it is laughable.

    As a female gamer, I find it utterly reprehensible that you would dare dictate that because I agree with gender equality, that makes me a feminist. I am a staunch post-feminist (meaning that I believe feminism has achieved its goals and is no longer relevant to modern society). I am my own person with my own beliefs, and to be automatically labelled as being associated with such a group that I detest is offensive and patronising.

    Games like Senran Kagura Burst do not, contrary to your belief, damage the industry in any way, shape or form. Of all the games I've ever played, (and that's a lot), there have only been a handful where female characters are obviously sexualised. However, I have no problem with this, because if I'm allowed to find certain aesthetically pleasing male video game characters (and some female ones) completely irresistible, then it should be perfectly acceptable for man to do the same.

    The majority of gamers are male, and so demographics would dictate that most video games are aimed at men. Men like looking at good looking women. In a video game, everything is fantasy. Utterly gorgeous female characters that couldn't possibly exist in real life take form in video games, and people love that. What is wrong with fantasy?

    Your contention that games like this alienate female gamers is complete garbage. There are plenty of games that appeal almost exclusively to girls, yet I don't see you complaining that male gamers are alienated. Ho hum.

    It is obvious that this game was made purely for fanservice purposes, but what is wrong with that? What is wrong with men wanting to play a game that has sexy, attractive girls in it? Men like good looking women, whether real or not, and there is nothing you can do to stop men acting on biological instincts. This is just one game out of thousands of others, and to suggest that is damages the industry is moronic and delusional.

    PS: The girls in the game are in high school, meaning they are age 16-18. Last time I checked, 16 was the age of consent. Nothing wrong there then.

    PPS: How do you know female gamers don't like to play games with sexy women? *cough*

  77. RollyKahn Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 03:02

    [
    I do find it interesting that you claim there to be an "actual" feminism. I've spent most of my day reading about the divides that come to surface when analysing pornography, and there's dozens of dissenting feminist opinions within it. The idea of a "one true feminism" is a complete myth. It's an academic subject which thrives on debate, discussion and internal (and, to an extent, external) criticism.

    Actual meaning "not riding the train to make money off it" by affinity fraud or using inflamatory headlines to get clicks=ad views=money, and actually believing in the cause.

    Like it or not, calling a vampire attacking an entire family "rape imagery" because a woman was attacked and the other crazy crap game "journalism" puts out is NEVER going to help. A man calling an obscure game game is "damaging" to an entire industry (while ignoring anything by a big publisher because muh ad money) is not going to do anything but make it .

    I could point out that (for example) Gone Home's "romance" is rape (the other girl is sleeping and never consents to being sexually touched by the other and says she had "no control" during the incident. A pretty clear cut case.) and the authors treat it as OK (which is horrible), but pretty much no one who doesn't already agree with me will listen because everyone just thinks I'm acting like the author of this piece.

  78. Wrathy Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 03:29

    As a female gamer, I find it utterly reprehensible that you would dare dictate that because I agree with gender equality, that makes me a feminist. I am a staunch post-feminist (meaning that I believe feminism has achieved its goals and is no longer relevant to modern society). I am my own person with my own beliefs, and to be automatically labelled as being associated with such a group that I detest is offensive and patronising.

    Particularly interested in this, if you could expand it'd be great. How would you define post feminism? How has it achieved its goals, and how is it no longer relevant? How you reconcile believing in men's 'biological instincts', for example, with the objectification of women which leads to obscene number of convicted (and unreported, though that is impossible to verify) rapes, battery, domestic violence, murder and so on? Are such things forgivable, as long as they're just acting on 'biological instincts'?

    [
    I do find it interesting that you claim there to be an "actual" feminism. I've spent most of my day reading about the divides that come to surface when analysing pornography, and there's dozens of dissenting feminist opinions within it. The idea of a "one true feminism" is a complete myth. It's an academic subject which thrives on debate, discussion and internal (and, to an extent, external) criticism.

    Actual meaning "not riding the train to make money off it" by affinity fraud or using inflamatory headlines to get clicks=ad views=money, and actually believing in the cause.

    Like it or not, calling a vampire attacking an entire family "rape imagery" because a woman was attacked and the other crazy crap game "journalism" puts out is NEVER going to help. A man calling an obscure game game is "damaging" to an entire industry (while ignoring anything by a big publisher because muh ad money) is not going to do anything but make it .

    I could point out that (for example) Gone Home's "romance" is rape (the other girl is sleeping and never consents to being sexually touched by the other and says she had "no control" during the incident. A pretty clear cut case.) and the authors treat it as OK (which is horrible), but pretty much no one who doesn't already agree with me will listen because everyone just thinks I'm acting like the author of this piece.

    I'm not speaking on behalf of the magazine or the author of this piece, particularly on the click bait line. Moreover, I find it particularly interesting how there are thriving threads across the internet discussing this piece, which condemn it for criticising something the author didn't play, and making the messy point that if they don't like it, they aren't forced to play it. By their own logic, they don't like it, they aren't forced to read it...

    But I digress. I don't disagree with you that the focus of this piece is somewhat ill placed, given the endemic wider problems in the video game industry. If the magazine would like to continue giving a platform to feminist opinion and critique, opening the door to analysis of the multi million box shifters, that'd be quite literally smashing. ;)

  79. Rilocarashulaki Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 04:03

    This article is completely and utterly ridiculous, and is so misguided it is laughable.

    As a female gamer, I find it utterly reprehensible that you would dare dictate that because I agree with gender equality, that makes me a feminist. I am a staunch post-feminist (meaning that I believe feminism has achieved its goals and is no longer relevant to modern society). I am my own person with my own beliefs, and to be automatically labelled as being associated with such a group that I detest is offensive and patronising.

    Games like Senran Kagura Burst do not, contrary to your belief, damage the industry in any way, shape or form. Of all the games I've ever played, (and that's a lot), there have only been a handful where female characters are obviously sexualised. However, I have no problem with this, because if I'm allowed to find certain aesthetically pleasing male video game characters (and some female ones) completely irresistible, then it should be perfectly acceptable for man to do the same.

    The majority of gamers are male, and so demographics would dictate that most video games are aimed at men. Men like looking at good looking women. In a video game, everything is fantasy. Utterly gorgeous female characters that couldn't possibly exist in real life take form in video games, and people love that. What is wrong with fantasy?

    Your contention that games like this alienate female gamers is complete garbage. There are plenty of games that appeal almost exclusively to girls, yet I don't see you complaining that male gamers are alienated. Ho hum.

    It is obvious that this game was made purely for fanservice purposes, but what is wrong with that? What is wrong with men wanting to play a game that has sexy, attractive girls in it? Men like good looking women, whether real or not, and there is nothing you can do to stop men acting on biological instincts. This is just one game out of thousands of others, and to suggest that is damages the industry is moronic and delusional.

    PS: The girls in the game are in high school, meaning they are age 16-18. Last time I checked, 16 was the age of consent. Nothing wrong there then.

    PPS: How do you know female gamers don't like to play games with sexy women? *cough*

    I signed in here for the first time just to say that ChloeAnn is 100% correct. This blog post is misconceived from start to finish. The game was designed, from the beginning, to be a fanservice gimmick. From a culture that is not yours, Chris, and therefore has different values than your own by definition. You do not like this game? Then don't buy it. But don't dare to presume to tell others that they aren't allowed to purchase or support the game if they are so inclined, or that they should feel guilty by doing so. That's the same as extremist religious rhetoric.

    As far as guys stripping down for "cheesecake" shots or whatnot (whether in gaming or other media), perhaps you haven't paid close attention. Before you cry out "Male Power Fantasy" as a knee-jerk response, the mostly-nude men on the covers of romance novels aren't there to grab the attention of male readers, for example. Or if you want men portrayed in an obviously fantasy setting for the sake of the female audience, I point you to the "Toyota Toyotathon Jackpot" series of commercials.

    Why do I use examples not from gaming to poke holes in your argument? Because your argument has one massive flaw that renders it moot anyway, Chris: The ESA percentage you quote regarding female gamers? That's based on ALL formats. They do not divide by TYPE of gaming: Console/Gaming-Focused Hand Held, PC, iPhone/iPad app games. 70% of games played are: Casual, Social (35% there), Puzzle, Board, Game Show, Trivia, & Card Games. Of the remaining 30%, 90% of them are played by males. Only 10% of men play the 70% of the games that 90% of women play.

    Which demographic is Senran Kagura Burst being made for & marketed to: The 90% of female gamers who play Candy Crush, Cut the Rope, etc.? Or the 90% of male gamers who play Action/RPG/Sports/Strategy/Etc. games?

    These are some of all the reasons why your blog post is garbage. The rest is damaged by statements of "SKB damages the industry!" and such, but not offering any solid, valid evidence of said damage. NONE.

    Barbie Adventures and their ilk damages the industry more: Shovelware no-one even cares about except four-year-olds who like pink...for all of a week when boredom sets in. Games only made for a quick buck and without any heart.

    No, what REALLY damages the "gaming industry" is intolerance. People (whether they play games or not) who criticize games that weren't made with their demographic in mind to begin with, and demand that no-one should be allowed to play the games they object to. These people are fast being associated with religious fanatics who make the same demands for the same reasons to everyone...same religion or not.

    Just because my "morality" is not the same as your "morality", Chris, doesn't mean you are immoral though. So don't worry about that, okay?

  80. ChloeAnn Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 04:10

    Particularly interested in this, if you could expand it'd be great. How would you define post feminism? How has it achieved its goals, and how is it no longer relevant? How you reconcile believing in men's 'biological instincts', for example, with the objectification of women which leads to obscene number of convicted (and unreported, though that is impossible to verify) rapes, battery, domestic violence, murder and so on? Are such things forgivable, as long as they're just acting on 'biological instincts'?

    Feminism was supposed to be about women's rights - now that we have said rights, there really isn't any need for it in the Western world. You might not like to hear this, but women are not an oppressed minority in the Western world anymore. Myself and practically every other woman I have ever known do not feel that we are oppressed or are treated as second class citizens.

    Second and third wave feminism is no longer about women's rights, but trying to change the biology of men because they loathe their sexuality. Feminists are creating a world where men are consistently blamed and made responsible for everyone else on the planet, while treating women like victims who have no responsibility for themselves and cannot make their own decisions. As a woman who can make her own decisions, I want nothing to do with this group, and believe that real feminism has run its course. Sorry that I don't believe in the patriarchy, I guess I just haven't seen the proverbial light yet.

    Your second statement is absurd and completely misses my point by a long shot. What I mean is biological instincts in terms of finding people attractive. You can't stop a man being attracted to a character that has large breasts. Again, everyone has fantasies, and objectifying fictional characters, or women in adult films is not wrong or misogynistic. To think otherwise is delusional. Rape has nothing to do with objectification or misogyny. Rape is an evil crime committed by evil people. Most men understand that women are human beings who deserve to be treated with respect. Most men understand the importance of consent. You seem to be implying that men who objectify women are rapists. In countries where laws surrounding pornography are relaxed, the rate of sexual crime is significantly lower.

  81. garywood Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 04:13

    Well I agree with the core of your argument. But I think you really need to take a step back and get some perspective. Games like this are ruining the industy? Cm'on. That's just not a serious claim. Games like this have very little influence on the industry as a whole. It's a completely marginalised type of genre. You just couldn't sell a game where the women are portrayed like this as a serious game. And that's exactly where it needs to be.

    The fact that nowadays it tends to be liberal progressives who want to censor and block things is something that troubles me a great deal (as I'd normally consider myself one). This is an incredibly dangerous mindset that we need to address.
    I don't want any kind of game being blocked from the industry. All manner of offensive and horrible things should be available and out in the open (including Binding of Isaac, Nintendo). People can then vote with their money on which things they want to remain. If people actually want to pay for games where the ONLY draw is bouncing boobs, then you just need to get off the high horse and deal with it.

    Equality is a tough thing. The simple fact is that men and women never will be perfectly equal because we're completely biologically distinct. The best we can do is to focus on certain areas that we think are the most important like equal wages. This, however, is not one of those areas. There will always be a difference between how men and women express their sexuality and there will always be a bigger demand for this sort of thing to be aimed at men. (Women just wouldn't buy a game with bouncing dicks- although now I've created that imagery, it sounds hilarious).

  82. Rilocarashulaki Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 04:24

    As a female gamer, I find it utterly reprehensible that you would dare dictate that because I agree with gender equality, that makes me a feminist. I am a staunch post-feminist (meaning that I believe feminism has achieved its goals and is no longer relevant to modern society). I am my own person with my own beliefs, and to be automatically labelled as being associated with such a group that I detest is offensive and patronising.

    Particularly interested in this, if you could expand it'd be great. How would you define post feminism? How has it achieved its goals, and how is it no longer relevant? How you reconcile believing in men's 'biological instincts', for example, with the objectification of women which leads to obscene number of convicted (and unreported, though that is impossible to verify) rapes, battery, domestic violence, murder and so on? Are such things forgivable, as long as they're just acting on 'biological instincts'?

    I am HIGHLY offended by you stating that, because I find certain traits beautiful and my gender, I will go on a mass raping & murder spree of anyone and everyone who has those traits.

    How DARE you. :x

  83. Wrathy Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 05:58

    Did you seriously just report me for misandry? Even though I in no way correlated the thing I pulled out of the air as an example for discussion purposes because it was something I saw as a point of contention and the actual, real world behaviour of all men, which we (hopefully) all know cannot be empirically verified in any meaningful way? It should be transparently clear from my comments throughout this thread that I've a little more sense than that, though I will concede that having spent two days researching radical feminism, my mind has slightly melted a little and I may not have posed the question as eloquently as I should. Nonetheless, if you're that offended by dialogue, I'm deeply sorry, but your reaction to people conversing on the internet isn't exactly my fault.

    I'll come back and reply to the longer posts tomorrow, because I've got a busy day and can't really give them the replies they deserve when i'm in bed on my phone, but the ludicrous strawmanning of what i've said needs to be nipped in the bud.

  84. DstryrEU Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 09:46

    Reading this article was both hilarious and cringe-worthy at the same time.

  85. Balladeer Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 10:01

    Ooh, feminism on the Internet. Even more ooh, feminism on a gaming site. Oooooh.

    Like many others (I'm sure - forgive me if I tremble at the thought of reading the rest of the comments) I agree with the premise of the piece while thinking that the tone is a little OTT, especially considering the audience. There are worse problems facing women and feminists, true, but most of them aren't anything to do with gaming and therefore would be out of place on this site.

  86. D.Toad64 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 11:46

    I've read all the comments for this article and I do agree and disagree with some and I understand why Chris Rookie has written this article but it's clear he's not done thorough research into the game to fully justify his arguments. This is a Japanese style game (as many people have said) and their culture is different to ours. This article is exactly why not a lot of Japanese games get localised over in the UK or Europe. They would just get critically disapproved of by people and it actually shows how people cannot express themselves as much as the Japanese do. Think of it like this, Japanese have bizarre and ominous games as they can express themselves without fear of being ridiculed or judged. Games like this people might want to buy but won't because they will be judged for being a "perv" or whatever just because they want that for a game. The majority of males do it and it's natural for males to want that kind of thing. The same goes for women and what games offer them in terms of service (but it is rarer unless you count Argenthor's quote

    The Saints Row games have plenty of naked men in.

    and other games with similar services) but ultimately I would say it's not a bad thing for people to do UNLESS it gets taken to far and affects people in real life.

    To all those people going on about how it's degrading to women, the only people that makes it degrading are the PEOPLE DECLARING IT! Is it wrong for people to want this game purely for the fanservice? No. I will hold my hands up and say if I did get this game it would be mainly for that purpose but I always buy games because I feel I will enjoy the gameplay and as the game being a fighter (a genre I am interested in) I am thinking of buying this game. Nothing anyone can say will sway me for or against buying this game unless it's gameplay related information.
    ChloeAnn couldn't have put it better and I back her ENTIERLY, Feminism was a major problem before because people weren't aware of it at the time but now it's been resolved so why is it that people bring back an issue that's already been settled? I won't go into more detail as I don't have proper knowledge of the topic and that is based purely of my OWN opinion. When I meet a woman/female I try and treat them as I would any other person, I don't want to treat women/females differently to men because we are equals.

    Bottom line, this is an interesting article and all the comments (well most as some are just ridiculous comments based on personal attacks) and I have enjoyed hearing Chris Rookie's and everyone else views on it but most of you are just being stupid about the whole "feminism" issue. I applaud the people (like ChloeAnn, Chaos Zero and a few others) that have not been sucked into the argument of feminism. Also this game will not damage the industry and saying such a thing is very bad journalism. Maybe it was an act of frustration towards the game and just said out of pure hatred towards the game or it's a personal attack towards the game which is not al all professional or maybe neither but those are the two thoughts that came into my mind when I saw that line and would be something I possibly would say if in that situation.
    Feel free to reply saying either remarks about my poor writing, thoughts or the entire comment or positive replies which I always welcome! :)
    PS: Long time reader, first time commenter! :shock:

  87. dunc247 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 11:55

    Dear ONM,
    Please include more contentious topics in future articles, for as Matthew so aptly put this was 'fascinating'.

  88. YannickValGesto Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 13:04

    I can only applaud this game for getting a European release, without being censored to death. Free your mind.

  89. Shinnos Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 13:09

    So, do yourself, and the wider community a favour: don't read articles about its release. Try not to Youtube it. Avoid reviews. And certainly don't buy it.

    If only I'd read your blog before reading this... http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/56712/senran-kagura-burst-release-date-and-boxart-revealed/ :roll:

    I sort of get where you were coming from with this blog, but I do think it was fairly misguided. Have you actually played the game? If not, then calling for people to boycott it and claiming that it is "damaging the industry" seems extremely reactionary. There's a certain irony in imploring people not to read articles about a game's release at the end of an article about a game's release. I'd guess that a large number of people that actually read this article were probably not even aware of this game before reading it.

  90. YannickValGesto Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 13:16

    Why do ppl cry when japanese developers push these boundaries with games as Dragon's Crown, Senran Kagura, Mugen Souls, Hyperdimension Neptunia,... are people scared by fan service based sexuality because it's less psychological than the objectification of masculinity in games? Because it's in your face? Is the western audience just uncomfortable with ecchi based perversion?

  91. eurofail Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 13:27

    What a BS here.... we (Europe) living in an area where we play bloody and inhuman war games were humans are killed in absolutely brutal manner and some people who just need some attention uses this peaceful game to get their fame!?
    Stereotypes in video games are nothing new and when in comes to male characters they are all stereotypical. Tall, strong, deep voice, cool. Think about of a COD with a 160cm short guy and a high voice or bald? Everyone would call it "gay" or something.
    So what's the deal? Every game in which humans are killed is way more a danger to people than a game with busty women. No one will be damaged when seeing busty women or some girls in bikinis. You go to a newspaper store and you find a lot more magazines with way more boobs etc.
    If you don't want to see, you don't have to buy it. Or rate it for 16 above and ok.
    This game is absolutely no harm. Not to women (they laugh about this "s**t") or to young males (because they're not stupid and know that no such girls exist).

  92. Slayso Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 13:51

    The issue with the artwork for this game (not judging the game itself, never played it), is that it perpetuates a tremendously negative stereotype regarding male gamers and the video game industry in general. That boxart is the kind of thing you'd expect in Japan, and having been to Tokyo myself, it is very much the norm. But here, in the UK, there's no reason for it. It's "sex sells" in the worst way. It's explicitly sexual imagery has one purpose and that's to attract male gamers. We should be at a point where the industry isn't relying on such damaging strategies to sell a video game. People wonder why the gaming industry is still looked down upon as a medium and it's things like this. It's pure, full-frontal female objectification.

    http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/arcadesushi.com/files/2013/01/Zombie-Bait.jpg
    http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/screencrush.com/files/2013/09/Metal-Gear-Solid-5-Quiet1-630x473.jpg
    http://insidenintendo.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/SenranKaguraBurst_Boxart.jpg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO1EzqF1RAE

    The Golden Age of Gaming - 2014

    The sooner we get equality in all forms of media, including video games, the better.

  93. Arfoo Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 14:03

    It should be transparently clear from my comments throughout this thread that I've a little more sense than that.


    Yeah, about that...

    with the objectification of women which leads to obscene number of convicted (and unreported, though that is impossible to verify) rapes, battery, domestic violence, murder and so on


    So what leads females to do the same kind of deeds then? Objectification of men?

    If sexism isn't misogyny, then what is it? Bearing in mind that discrimination typically happens down a power chain, and therefore in a patriarchal society, sexism is inequality created by males against females.


    So you're saying that there is no sexism towards males? Any person worth their salt would recognise that as a fact.
    This is just like saying that there is no racism towards white people.

    Also, since you recognise the term "misandry". If misandry isn't sexism, then what is it?

    But no, neither misandry nor misogyny is sexism.

    And since you're so invested in this, you should know that by now.

    If I was proposing a solution, 50:50 employment and equal treatment would be my only reasonable answer, because it's the only way that I can see balance being restored.


    50:50 employment and equal treatment is pretty much an oxymoron.
    You count your employees and look through what sex they are and that decides who gets hired. Not really equal, is it?

    the representation within games like Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed or Grand Theft Auto Five


    A *war* game series with yearly releases not having a worthwhile story? What a surprise. Female models are far more than enough for that series.

    Ass Creed? Another franchise run to the ground with majority of the games taking place in the past not having too many "strong" female characters? (With only one female killed throughout the games?) Again, what a surprise.
    (Not to mention that one AC with female protag)

    GTAV, a game about masculinity not having "strong" females (let us ignore every female in GTAs to date - just like journos did)? What a surprise.

    The study you talk about is in this article too, ESA's study. But ESA's study is all about taking into account all kinds of games, even casual ones which WILL affect the results a lot. By far, the core audience is males and as such, they cater to males.

    I strongly believe that, if we were to actually analyse it with a properly critical hat, gaming is an industry suffering from an epidemic or women hating


    Or maybe it's just suffering from an influx of SJWs, whiteknights and such? Everything is misogynistic or sexist in videogames nowadays. The outcry of this stuff is unbearable, most of the people don't even care about the games but they still complain.

    Alas, I'm writing an essay for a university module on the ethics of sex about why pornography is intrinsically bad and should be banned right now


    But this, this is what really, really makes you look awfully stupid. (Makes your attempt to look so great with your "I'm studying this and this and the employment rate is this and this" look just downright cringeworthy - not that the "alas" does you any good either)

    So hypothetically, we ban porn. What now? What will we drag down next? Will sex / nudity be banned totally from TV too? We will forbid people from drawing any sort of porn too, right? Where will those who work on this stuff to get their dough go? Will any and all nudity anywhere have to be removed? Lingerie ads getting banned too?

    Will characters have to wear burqas or something similar and look "normal" as defined by some random "feminist"?

    Will we start jailing those who dare to distribute/produce any such material?

    There's just so much wrong to go on about that. Even if you leave it at just pornographic films, what do you hope to gain? What do you believe would change?

  94. Arfoo Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 14:14

    The issue with the artwork for this game (not judging the game itself, never played it), is that it perpetuates a tremendously negative stereotype regarding male gamers and the video game industry in general. That boxart is the kind of thing you'd expect in Japan, and having been to Tokyo myself, it is very much the norm. But here, in the UK, there's no reason for it. It's "sex sells" in the worst way. It's explicitly sexual imagery has one purpose and that's to attract male gamers. We should be at a point where the industry isn't relying on such damaging strategies to sell a video game. People wonder why the gaming industry is still looked down upon as a medium and it's things like this. It's pure, full-frontal female objectification.

    The sooner we get equality in all forms of media, including video games, the better.

    If you want "equality" why don't you let people enjoy what they want to enjoy rather than going "WELL YOU CAN'T POSSIBLE BE ALLOWED TO ENJOY THIS, IT SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM EXISTENCE!"

    If you don't like ecchi, you don't watch ecchi.
    If you don't like violence, you don't consume violent media.
    If you don't like this and that, you don't consume this and that.

    Simple. As. That. Nobody is forcing it upon you.

    It's explicitly sexual imagery has one purpose and that's to attract male gamers


    Oh boy I get to play politically correct for once! Even women enjoy this stuff.

    You're the ones doing the objectification anyhow. Especially when it comes to Quiet. I mean, the game is not even released, yet everyone and their rad fem mother is throwing a s**tfit about her BEFORE knowing anything about the character. People just pretend they know everything about her and just crying about it.

    Hell, I have only played MGS2 and some of MGS1 but reading through wiki and stuff you know the females aren't there just for acting attractive. But then again most of those people haven't had anything to do with the franchises and yet they still complain. "Naked Raiden? Why should I care about something I have not played?" - All this while complaining about Quiet.

  95. Wrathy Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 14:23

    But this, this is what really, really makes you look awfully stupid. (Makes your attempt to look so great with your "I'm studying this and this and the employment rate is this and this" look just downright cringeworthy - not that the "alas" does you any good either)

    Don't worry sweetheart, I don't particularly care for your approval. I'll come back to you, as I say, after my essay.

  96. King Slazo Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 14:23

    If you want "equality" why don't you let people enjoy what they want to enjoy rather than going "WELL YOU CAN'T POSSIBLE BE ALLOWED TO ENJOY THIS, IT SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM EXISTENCE!"

    If you don't like ecchi, you don't watch ecchi.
    If you don't like violence, you don't consume violent media.
    If you don't like this and that, you don't consume this and that.

    Simple. As. That. Nobody is forcing it upon you.

    I don't like murder, I'll ignore murder.
    I don't like rape, I'll ignore rape.
    I don't like real world problems, I'll ignore real world problems and then they'll all go away.

    Except they won't. The only way to address problems is by raising them and putting a spotlight on them to educate people, causing the necessary debates to happen.

    You'll be implying white male priviledge doesn't exist ne-

    This is just like saying that there is no racism towards white people.

    Oh.

  97. Slayso Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 14:28

    I enjoy immensely that your definition of equality is "if you don't like it, don't look at it".

    I'd argue further, but I lost my ability to take you seriously when you implied I was a "rad fem" for pointing out the ridiculous character that is Quiet. I'm perfectly certain there'll be some exceptionally well written and not at all grasping at straws reason why they've made her walk around in her underwear all the while mute. It's almost like she's supposed to be an object or something, but that's probably my male rad-fem brain talking crazy. In future I'll let my penis do the talking.

  98. LewiiG Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 14:34

    The issue with the artwork for this game (not judging the game itself, never played it), is that it perpetuates a tremendously negative stereotype regarding male gamers and the video game industry in general. That boxart is the kind of thing you'd expect in Japan, and having been to Tokyo myself, it is very much the norm. But here, in the UK, there's no reason for it. It's "sex sells" in the worst way. It's explicitly sexual imagery has one purpose and that's to attract male gamers. We should be at a point where the industry isn't relying on such damaging strategies to sell a video game. People wonder why the gaming industry is still looked down upon as a medium and it's things like this. It's pure, full-frontal female objectification.

    Well the first image is just messed up. Who would buy the game seeing that? Eww. Even the company regret that they made that, I researched.

    The second image, is a single character from Metal Gear Solid V, which would sell without that easily for a start. She was created to be a sexy character, to get more cosplays. This is a bit too obvious though, her design could be much less "objectifying" as one might say and still be as sexy. But oh well, I'm not gonna cry.

    The Senran Kagura box, is hot. It's the only game you've listed that is actually using the appeal to sell. But seriously, I think it's fine. They are clearly, very, VERY clearly aiming for a certain audience. You know, I would actually hate using sex to sell IF the game was actually bad and poorly made. It's fine for things like DoA because the game/gameplay and everything else is amazing, and focused on. The sex appeal is a finishing touch, a layer of alluring attraction. They do want interest you know. And what is more interesting than what they are doing xD. Senran Kagura doesn't seem like a bad game. Also what is interesting and ironic, is the Japanese box art is not even sexual, and I prefer it to the one I might be getting. I find it more attractive than the other one (gamewise and sex wise). Our one seems like a cheeky sales effort, and makes it look like we only care about boobs. I'd rather they didn't change it. But the thing is, I am part of the audience for this game, and I know that the game has more appeal than that for me. Our box art is something I can laugh at xD I don't care and people who look at this and are disgusted just "don't understand." Ask any modern female with a brain and they would not care or be offended that most men are genetically attracted to this stuff.

    http://cdn-amog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/0806_Wikipedia_SenranKaguraCoverArt.jpg

    Dragon's Crown, I've seen the character. She looks awesome, so does the game. Nothing more to say really I haven't played it but reviews for it are amazing. The Sorceress is the bonus icing again it seems like I've wrote previously about DoA.

    The sooner we get equality in all forms of media, including video games, the better.


    Really? Honestly, though how is this possible to achieve? Do you wanna make a rule or something? At least one female of every cup and hair colour combination must be included in the game? All females must not show any skin and be strong individuals? Same for males however that would work as well? I don't really know. Anyway, doing that pretty much screws equality and freedom even more. Equality in media is just stupid for one and one reason only; it is nothing but imagination and creativity. Putting rules and limits of trying to portray this "equality" in fiction is just stupid. We pretty much have equality in real life now here, and I in no way see how fiction and real life can actually be an arguement in this equality thing because media is not life. You want a fictional world to have equality. Brilliant.

  99. yellow fellow993 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 14:39

    http://i.imgur.com/MDRMWL4.png

  100. Arfoo Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 14:43


    I don't like murder, I'll ignore murder.
    I don't like rape, I'll ignore rape.
    I don't like real world problems, I'll ignore real world problems and then they'll all go away.

    Except they won't. The only way to address problems is by raising them and putting a spotlight on them to educate people, causing the necessary debates to happen.

    You'll be implying white male priviledge doesn't exist ne-

    This is just like saying that there is no racism towards white people.

    Oh.

    Oh god.

    You're seriously making a murder, rape, whatever that happens in real life the same as consuming a TV show, game or something similar of a specific genre? Like, seriously?

    What shall we educate people about? Don't watch shows that are part of * genre because they're bad for you, mmkay?

    And for someone who wants to educate people about problems, speaking of "WHITE PRIVILEGE!!!!" or acting like racism towards white people isn't a thing is really, really hypocritical.

    You CAN ignore games like Senran Kagura and you and nobody around you will be affected. You CAN ignore ecchi, gore, whatever media and you and nobody around you will be affected.


    I enjoy immensely that your definition of equality is "if you don't like it, don't look at it".

    I'd argue further, but I lost my ability to take you seriously when you implied I was a "rad fem" for pointing out the ridiculous character that is Quiet. I'm perfectly certain there'll be some exceptionally well written and not at all grasping at straws reason why they've made her walk around in her underwear all the while mute. It's almost like she's supposed to be an object or something, but that's probably my male rad-fem brain talking crazy. In future I'll let my penis do the talking.

    I wonder how you came to the conclusion that I called you a rad fem?

    If anyone is grasping at straws, it's you. The game isn't out yet and you're pretending like it's impossible to have any good reason to make her "underwear" (what?) clothing viable.
    Skin camouflage maybe? How about that?

    but that's probably my male rad-fem brain talking crazy


    It sure is. Mute = Object, gotcha.
    While MGS takes some things a bit loosely, it's still war. Remember that.

  101. Teh_Black_Mage Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 15:03

    Everyone who has taken the time to post here to defend Senran Kagura Burst has definitely spent their time well. I just finished up an important conference with Miyamoto and we're going to shut down this here ONM for slanderous remarks.

  102. Cribster Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 15:07

    I'd just like to interject with a quick

    lol

  103. nintengeek Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 15:14

    This article is confusing the representation of females in western games and the representation of females in Japanese games.

    These exaggerated, animated, cutesy girls will in no way "damage" the industry or the image of women. The sole purpose of this game is to appeal to a huge,yet admittedly strange, market in Japan while also being pretty fun.
    And, yeah, it exists for guys too. There's the yaoi market, "Boys' Love" games and doujin.

    Unbalanced representations of genders is definitely present in games but I think it's very difficult to compare Japanese games with western games (in terms of sexual content). Their culture has a completely different stance on it than we do in general.

  104. Balladeer Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 15:23

    I think it's quite interesting that the moderators seem to be taking one side of the debate, and most of the rest of the users, the other. Not sure what conclusion to draw from that. It's just... interesting.

    There's totally a feminist brainwashing programme going on in the mod. forum/fora. No joke.

    Also, hi Wraffs! Nice to see you again. :) Shame about the circumstances though.

  105. Teh_Black_Mage Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 15:25

    P. sure most people don't care and it's gamefaqs going wackjob on this

  106. evilpinkdragon Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 15:27

    I'm female (well, I was last time I checked) and I'd play this if I read an unbiased review which said the gameplay was good.
    Get off your soapboxes people :')

  107. pokemaniac 212 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 15:30

    All I'm seeing here is a highly ideological article that does little to justify the opinion presented in it. You practically say it in the first sentence, discussion ends where ideology begins. Your ideology has made you blind for what the game was meant to be from the start: Tits and ass jiggling in 3D. It's not a half-assed cheap extra to attract additional attention. This is literally the core idea from which the game was carefully crafted.

    But does the fact that its intended to be 3d tits and ass: the game make it acceptable? To look at this logically:

    Point A) Objectification is defined in this context as the act of treating a person merely as an instrument of sexual pleasure, making them a "sex object".

    Point B) Treating someone solely as a sex object is a bad thing

    Point C) This is a game the box art of which is a pair of breasts and which the post quoted describes as being solely based around "Tits and ass jiggling in 3D".

    Conclusion) This game is clearly objectification as described and therefore bad. That isn't to say it doesn't have a place, but it does mean that it is quite right to criticise it for that, which is what the article does, if slightly too zealously in my opinion.

    I also find it amusing that so many people here are talking about it being a great game with a great story and character arcs, when the game isn't out for another month, so unless every single person saying that has a japanese enabled 3DS, has imported the game and speaks fluent japanese, which I highly doubt, then I sense high-level bulls**t.

  108. Wrathy Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 15:49

    I think it's quite interesting that the moderators seem to be taking one side of the debate, and most of the rest of the users, the other. Not sure what conclusion to draw from that. It's just... interesting.

    There's totally a feminist brainwashing programme going on in the mod. forum/fora. No joke.

    Also, hi Wraffs! Nice to see you again. :) Shame about the circumstances though.

    If I was running a brainwashing programme, it'd a) work and b) not be targeted at my team mates! Nice to see you too, though. Hit me with a PM if you're up for it. :)

  109. LewiiG Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 16:00


    Conclusion) This game is clearly objectification as described and therefore bad. That isn't to say it doesn't have a place, but it does mean that it is quite right to criticise it for that, which is what the article does, if slightly too zealously in my opinion.


    The game is not bad because it may be objectifying. How does that even work? If Mario Galaxy was replaced with these girls and every jump was a panty shot or something, and was presented in many simillar sexy ways, does it suddenly become bad? You weren't on about the actual game I hope, you were on about the presentation being politically incorrect or something. I say this just in case. I would also disagree with whoever said the game is merely "Tits and ass jiggling in 3D." The appeal is much more than just that to people who have interest in the game. Seriously, it may be hard, but please understand.

    I also find it amusing that so many people here are talking about it being a great game with a great story and character arcs, when the game isn't out for another month, so unless every single person saying that has a japanese enabled 3DS, has imported the game and speaks fluent japanese, which I highly doubt, then I sense high-level bulls**t.


    It's okay to be uninformed. The series has manga and anime adaptions, and the game has been out in America for a while.

    It's totally acceptable. It harms no one, and certainly no industry. No effect on life but positive; enjoyment for people who like the game. Happy days.

    (General)
    I just realised, things like this is pretty much Japan only. It's everywhere there. The only people who cry out at this kind of stuff is the western world. Japan does not care, their morality is different and accepted as normal/fun by most to a degree that may suprise you. Don't mix their views with the most of the west's, they don't go together here. Go and complain to Japan if you want. What more against this article can be said, I don't know.

  110. pokemaniac 212 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 16:15


    Conclusion) This game is clearly objectification as described and therefore bad. That isn't to say it doesn't have a place, but it does mean that it is quite right to criticise it for that, which is what the article does, if slightly too zealously in my opinion.


    The game is not bad because it may be objectifying. How does that even work? If Mario Galaxy was replaced with these girls and every jump was a panty shot or something, and was presented in many simillar sexy ways, does it suddenly become bad? You weren't on about the actual game I hope, you were on about the presentation being politically incorrect or something. I say this just in case. I would also disagree with whoever said the game is merely "Tits and ass jiggling in 3D." The appeal is much more than just that to people who have interest in the game. Seriously, it may be hard, but please understand.

    By bad I mean on a moral level. I obviously wouldn't make comments on the objective quality of a game based on the boxart and general objectification of characters because objective quality can only be determined by playing it, something I openly admit I haven't done and will not do. Also, on the Mario Galaxy point, I would say the same as about this game, no comment on the quality of gameplay, but it would be a morally bad game.

    I also find it amusing that so many people here are talking about it being a great game with a great story and character arcs, when the game isn't out for another month, so unless every single person saying that has a japanese enabled 3DS, has imported the game and speaks fluent japanese, which I highly doubt, then I sense high-level bulls**t.

    It's okay to be uninformed. The series has manga and anime adaptions, and the game has been out in America for a while.

    It's totally acceptable. It harms no one, and certainly no industry. No effect on life but positive; enjoyment for people who like the game. Happy days.

    Perhaps people might have played the american version then, although I'd still be surprised if everyone talking about how good the game is has done. As for it not harming anyone, and having no negative effect on life, then that comes down to a question of how much influence the normalisation of objectification can have on someone. I personally am of the opinion that if objectification is normalised then there is a danger of it having a degrading influence in which case yes it does harm people.

    (General)
    I just realised, things like this is pretty much Japan only. It's everywhere there. The only people who cry out at this kind of stuff is the western world. Japan does not care, their morality is different and accepted as normal/fun by most to a degree that may suprise you. Don't mix their views with the most of the west's, they don't go together here. Go and complain to Japan if you want. What more against this article can be said, I don't know.

    If the game was only out in Japan then I would have no criticism because I fully recognise that their culture is different, However this game is being released in the west, for a western audience, and at that point it is hardly unfair to look at it with a western morality.

  111. Mistvearn Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 16:32

    So basically, "stop liking what I don't like", good thing the relevant developers realized that you're nothing but a vocal minority and the 45% number comes from candy crush and farmville.

  112. Aurigae Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 16:38

    As a girl who enjoys fighting/strategy games such as Dead or Alive, Ninja Gaiden and Project X Zone, I simply do not understand the whole "Girls do not play such games" comments at all. Not all of us just play Animal Crossing and Pokemon (which I am not dissing those that do, they are great franchises), some of us enjoy playing female fighters and playing through the game. No, I might not be your typical "girl gamer" for liking these types of games but not only do these fighter/strategy games have awesome graphics, but they have story lines us girls can appreciate also.

    I do not feel degraded by the likes of Dead or Alive since, at the end of the day, it is purely fiction and it's not like girls dress up in bunny suits every five minutes and fight each other. Does it make me feel more self-conscious seeing these types of games? No, not really. Since, again, it is fiction and I personally believe we shouldn't be taking these games out of context when they only reveal a bit of cleavage.

    I believe the divide between "male" and "female" games has been diminished thanks to certain series making games more appealing to the other genders; fighting games for girls included. I find it quite disrespectful when people say "X Franchise is a game purely for male/female" because, whether people like it or not, there's always going to be someone from the opposite gender who enjoys that certain game.

    However, I feel like this is a cultural issue to, as displayed in the different costume variations for Bravely Default. The EU/NA was less revealing than the Japanese ones and so I take my hat off to franchises like Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden who do not conform to the country that they are selling it to's ethos.

    Do believe Senran is taking it a tad too far? Of course. But the likes of Dead or Alive are fantastic and games in which I have loved from the get go. Keep being awesome, Team Ninja. :)

  113. Slayso Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 16:41

    So basically, "stop liking what I don't like", good thing the relevant developers realized that you're nothing but a vocal minority and the 45% number comes from candy crush and farmville.

    Farmville's still a thing? Can you show me your source that shows the 45% of gamers who're female are only playing mobile/Facebook games?

  114. thekwlman11 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 16:44

    http://i.imgur.com/lzYIG4z.jpg

  115. Sir_Bowser Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 16:46

    This is the most ill-informed set of comments I've ever seen since the departure of the 'Nice Guys and The Friendzone' thread.
    Congratulations for spewing vitriolic, homophobic and misogynistic statements all in one place!
    I am genuinely impressed at your level of stupidity!

    Also, I have never found that my vagina impairs my ability to play games. Must be a scientific breakthrough.

  116. Slayso Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 16:50

    This is the most ill-informed set of comments I've ever seen since the departure of the 'Nice Guys and The Friendzone' thread.
    Congratulations for spewing vitriolic, homophobic and misogynistic statements all in one place!
    I am genuinely impressed at your level of stupidity!

    Also, I have never found that my vagina impairs my ability to play games. Must be a scientific breakthrough.

    What level of Candy Crush are you on?

  117. Sir_Bowser Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 16:53

    100 I can't help myself ;~~~;

    But seriously though, if anyone thinks I'm going to download a supposedly super-addictive game when I already spend hours procrastinating...nope

  118. nintengeek Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 17:19

    Just stumbled upon this on Twitter and (while the stuff in SKB can be pretty outrageous) this type of thing is what I feel is a bigger problem.

    http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/01/20/i ... r-monpiece

    You actually boost/level your characters via a "Rubbing Mode" where you basically rub your characters up using the Vita touch screen, some of them even looking really young too...

    Here, the sexual content is actually being incorporated into the gameplay and that just weirds me out.

  119. master sword Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 17:23

    Don't think i've seen article with this many comments in a long time. *_*
    Honestly I think it's ending up as a lot of fuss over nothing, at the end of the day if I do get the game, the case will be where all my other game cases are, on a shelf with only the spine showing.
    Whether or not the game is GOOD or not i'll see from reviews and via my own experience (if a demo is released for example.)

    these girls aren't real they're anime characters. The game is ridiculous and over the top. This game is just japan being its wacky and fun loving self.

    It's clearly not mean to be taken seriously and arguments over feminism and such are just blowing it way out of proportion.

  120. JimmyRuss Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 17:23

    <apples> kill yourself you stupid <bananas>, video games like this have been coming out for a long time and they're not going away any time soon. Maybe you should be writing for Kotaku or Polygon instead you <cherry>.

  121. JimmyRuss Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 17:26

    "When their special attacks are used, a cutscene activates which involves all of the girl's clothes (except underwear) flying off her body before she attacks her enemies. The camera then spends a few seconds spiralling around the girl's nether-regions and breasts before continuing the game. "

    That's a cliche that has been around since Sailor Moon you <durian?> hopping piece of <eggplant>

  122. Balladeer Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 17:27

    Ooh, cunning. You're planning to write posts so awful, homophobic, offensive and childish that we forget all about the subject matter because we're too busy being appalled by you! Nice.

    Wait no, not nice. The opposite. "Terrible and shameful". Yes, that covers it.

  123. JimmyRuss Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 17:30

    Ooh, cunning. You're planning to write posts so awful, homophobic, offensive and childish that we forget all about the subject matter because we're too busy being appalled by you! Nice.

    Wait no, not nice. The opposite. "Terrible and shameful". Yes, that covers it.


    Don't you have some <...erm... fig?> to be drinking, <grapefruit>

  124. Guwuh Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 17:37

    i wish i hadn't posted on this thread cause now every time i click "view your posts" i have to be reminded it exists

  125. E123-Fawful Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 17:41

    <oh god don't quote it I have to edit these too>

    "When their special attacks are used, a cutscene activates which involves all of the girl's clothes (except underwear) flying off her body before she attacks her enemies. The camera then spends a few seconds spiralling around the girl's nether-regions and breasts before continuing the game. "

    That's a cliche that has been around since Sailor Moon you <dunno a fruit starting with h> hopping piece of <there aren't any beginning with i>

    <or j> kill yourself you stupid <k though, kiwi>, video games like this have been coming out for a long time and they're not going away any time soon. Maybe you should be writing for Kotaku or Polygon instead you <lemon>.


    Ooh, cunning. You're planning to write posts so awful, homophobic, offensive and childish that we forget all about the subject matter because we're too busy being appalled by you! Nice.

    Wait no, not nice. The opposite. "Terrible and shameful". Yes, that covers it.


    Don't you have some <mango> to be drinking, <necatrine>

    These posts were uncalled for and nothing of value to the discussion.

    Saw this when it went up and didn't really have something ready to say. Monitered it and have seen great points from (almost) everyone on this issue.
    Really don't know what I can say on this as most of my points have been said already. But I'll say this though. Female sexualisation is all over the place in gaming. Saint's Row, GTA even in Halo Cortana has been sexualised more with each entry she was in. Compare her from Halo CE to Halo 4. But this is a common thing in Japan. To them this is normal as they have a different culture where it's more widely accepted. Just look at all the anime and manga they have. Full of sexualisation.

  126. Crunch Buttsteak Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 17:44

    You know, I watched a movie a short while ago called "Hentai Kamen." It was a comedy about a superhero named "Panty-man" who was an incredibly attractive man, hung like a horse, with a body sculpted by the gods whose powers got stronger as he wore less clothing. Did I get upset at it, go and write an article about it on my blog and how it degrades men and is damaging to the movie industry? No, I laughed at the ridiculous scenario, enjoyed the movie for what it was, and moved on. You people need to lighten up. That goes for everyone getting upset at this kind of thing, on either side. Lighten up and enjoy the game for what it is. If you can't do that, maybe you shouldn't be playing it.

    And by the way, it wasn't a porn movie, if that's what you're thinking. Just a light-hearted comedy with a perverted slant.

  127. MatthewONM Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 17:45

    You sir, are great at picking forum usernames.

  128. randomidget Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 17:56

    I agree with feminism completely, but I don't think this is damaging in any way.

  129. RoscoePatterson Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 17:59

    -EA, one of the biggest companies in gaming, is notorious for cranking out sub-par products and stiffing their consumers. So much so that they're looking at winning Worst Company in America 3 years running
    - A number of journalists are corrupt, attack the community, and have only their own interests at heart.
    -Activision has killed the middle-market and can be blamed for the flood of WoW and CoD clones on the market.
    -Mega Man is dead, but people aren't sure if that's for the best or not, considering how Capcom is running their franchises into the ground.
    Banjo, Kazooie, Conker, and Joanna Dark are also deceased, and the serial killer wearing Rare's skin as a suit did it to make more lame Kinect Games that nobody ever wanted.
    -Games are more dumbed down than ever in an attempt to appeal to wider audiences, and recoup ridiculous production costs. "Niche" is now a bad word in in the industry.
    -DLC is pervasive and just another way for devs to weedle more cash out of people instead of a way to keep providing good content after release as it was proposed to be.
    -This new generation of consoles is basically just some minor graphical improvements. Their launch lineups were all mediocre at best and shockingly poor at worst, but that's ok because Xbox 1 has Skype and PS4 has the Share Button. That was what we all needed more than decent games right?
    -Mobile apps with cash shops and the bare minimum of effort put into them are also "the future" according to devs
    -Sony is statistically forecasted to go bankrupt, Microsoft is considering shutting down the Xbox Division, and now Nintendo is looking at reduced profits and stock downturns.
    -Whenever anybody complains, no matter how rationally or politely, they're fallaciously dismissed as either "entitled", "manchildren", "virgin". Or worse, they're lumped in with the vocal minority of trolls, racists, and sexists whenever it's convenient. (Here's a fun game to play, what are people going to call me for this post? 5-to-1 odds on virgin)
    -This industry is at its lowest point since the crash of the 80's and many are predicting the next crash is right around the corner.


    But what's damaging the industry? What do we need to stop more than anything? Attractive, busty, and scantily clad anime girls in games. Oh for the love of Jesus and all his good works, how will gaming ever survive poor female representation? If these horrid misogynists and sexists get to keep making this kind of smut, who knows what could happen?

    Can we please at least wait until a couple of the major problems with the industry are solved before we worry about gender representation?

  130. adamguy Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:03

    You sir, are great at picking forum usernames.

    A fine example of ONM Staff chiming in on hot-button issues.

  131. Kirbichu Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:09

    Cho Aniki hypersexualizes men, why isn't that damaging to the industry?

  132. 3try Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:12

    Here's something, I didn't even realize this game existed till I seen this article.

    Just food for thought

  133. lolinternets Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:13

    First of all, if there were games featuring lots of half naked guys running around (which there are, you're just not looking hard enough), there wouldn't be a bunch people calling for the banishment of such games because they're offensive to men; anyone who didn't like them just wouldn't play them. There's no point in causing such a scene over a videogame that offends you. Just don't play it.

    Second, it doesn't matter that any particular game alienates almost half of its potential market. Games that appeal to everyone can't cater to anyone. You end up with a bunch of watered down, homogenized dreck that's safe, universally unoffensive, and boring. I want games that cater to me. I'm sure feminists want the same thing. The difference here is that I understand that not every game is going to cater to me, and I'm okay with that fact. I just don't buy things that don't appeal to me.

    Third, yes, I think men and women deserve equal rights, but no, I won't acknowledge that this type of entertainment is "foul". This game is not pushing any agenda. It is not making the statement that women are objects. The characters in this game are objects. They are works of fiction. They are entirely unrealistic. You can like these characters, you can hate them, you can treat them like people, but only someone very disturbed would actually believe that they are people. It's perfectly feasible to ogle pretty, half-naked anime girls without expecting real women to gussy themselves up and start stripping in public. You might argue that pornography, in which real women participate and are objectified, is foul, but there are no women being objectified here, because there are no women here.

    Finally, I think it's disgusting that you discourage people from reading reviews, watching videos, and forming their own opinions about this game. "Just take my word for it. It's bad. Bad!" How ridiculous. God forbid someone watches a gameplay video, realizes that the whole half-naked thing doesn't bother them that much, and then decides that the game looks fun and that they want to play it. No, we can't have people thinking for themselves. Just join the hivemind!

  134. Celty Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:21

    For starters, it's alienating to women who play games: I find it extremely unlikely that any female gamer is going to be drawn in by the proliferation of breasts throughout the game and it's accompanying art. In fact, this kind of game sends out the message that gaming is only for males, and thus is alienating to women gamers.


    Speak for yourself. Or, in fact, don't, as you're not a woman. There absolutely are female gamers who can appreciate and enjoy games like Senran Kagura, and assuming they don't exist doesn't mean a thing for your point.

    Objectification is a strong term, and an overused one at that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the appreciation of the human form.

    A work can go too far, but Senran Kagura is not one that does so. All Senran Kagura does is show off some cartoon girls in little clothing, because some people like seeing that. On top of this, it's an exceptionally niche product, one that likely won't even be commonly seen on store shelves and even with a physical release in Europe, will mostly only be available via online retailers. Any impact it would have on young female gamers and their view of themselves is zero to none. With articles like this, all you do is make it more well known, while spewing your own nonsense about what should or shouldn't be allowed, and promoting indirect censhorship as a result - the last thing any growing art form like video games needs.

    I won't even go into how absurdly wrong it is to say that there aren't games that sexualise men. Almost every fighting game has a selection of hyper-muscular men, at least half the time with their shirts off. Again, there's nothing wrong with this. It's merely appreciation of the human form. If you take offense from it, that's your problem and your oversensitivity.

    I'll be buying Senran Kagura Burst on its release here, as it looks like a fun game with cute characters. I'll also be picking up Senran Kagura Shinovi Versus if/when it gets localized. The same will likely apply to the recently announced sequels.

  135. adcret7 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:24

    It honestly all boils down to insecurity. You have a perfectly fine hobby like video games with games that have normal women like Mirrors Edge or RPG’s with character customization, and then you have outlandish stylized games like Terra and Dragons Crown. Then you get these people with obvious insecurities who cry about MUH SEXUALIZATION, MUH POWER FANTASIES. I mean we play games with big hulking muscle bound men and dashing suave men, yet nobody cares, then you get these people from men to women (mostly women though, and you can pull the S-SEXISM card but it’s the truth) who cry about this in a VIDEO GAME. I get sometimes character appearances are terrible, like going from Dante in Devil May Cry 4 to DmC, or Cole Phelps from Infamous 1 to Infamous 2 (which THANKFULLY the Developers took our advice and changed him) but these are people who take offense, actual offense over what a woman looks like in a video game, and these video gamesthey cry over? Guess what, THEY DON’T EVEN BUY THEM! Yes, these people who cry over games like Dragons Crown pretty much aren’t going to buy them, it’s just an insecurity over something harmless in a game, so of course they roll out the SJW bulls**t and cry about MUH SEXISM, T-THIS GAME CAUSES MYSOGYNY. I mean remember when that one lawyer guy claimed GTA games made mass murderers out of kids? Everybody laughed at him because it’s just a fun game, causing no harm, doing nothing wrong. THEN you have people claiming that because the Sorceress has big tits, or a big ass that it’s somehow causing Misogyny. It’s asinine. I mean this New Feminism trend is basically First World Problems that don’t affect me or anybody at all: The Movement. It’s absolute hell over there for Women, yet I see NOBODY doing anything about it, not Anita Sarkeesian who is too busy naming tropes in a video game and crying about T-THAT WOMAN HAS B-BIG TITS! S-SEXISM or crying about how Bayonetta is hot looking despite Bayonettas appearances being done by A WOMAN. I’m rambling now but in conclusion, there are really two groups who, when viewing a character like the sorceress take things further than “oh wow, that is so over the top it’s funny”. These types of people boil down to.

    1. Somebody with insecurities over the character being portrayed despite it being a harmless hobby, this type of person almost never actually buys the game, and never ever tries it (take for example that >Kotaku screenshot of the comments where a guy pointed out during the OH GOD LOOK AT THIS CHARACTER moment with Quiet, that Raiden was designed to appeal to females and is naked in the game, in response to a woman complaining about it, who then responded to the guy with “I’ve never played those games”
    2. White knight betas who blindly agree with women on number one in hopes of what every white knight wants.

    I’ve seen more than my fair share of women who play all games with no problem with the characters, and I’ve seen even more women who DESIGN these games. It’s not actually video game players who angry over this, but people with insecurity issues who believe that a game should be changed to suit their interests and people who try to shove their own agenda in a game when all of whom have no plans to even buy or try the game.

  136. Yinga Garten Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:24

    I have reached a conclusion.....

    video games are for nerds.

  137. LordRoto Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:26

    Senran Kagura is clearly doing it's thing, and that is female fan service. I realize this is not the game of dreams for feminists, but, you have to understand that not every game can be made for feminists. You understand? Just like that fasion game trendsetters, which is made targeted for females and some males. Senran Kagura is made for pretty much for males. So yeah, not every game has to pander to the same taste. So you just have to accept that it will be like that the game industry. You like ridley from Aliens, But you understand that not every movie has a place for an ass kicking female main character. Like a comedy. Ya dig?

  138. MukuCookie Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:27

    "I find it extremely unlikely that any female gamer is going to be drawn in by the proliferation of breasts throughout the game and it's accompanying art."

    Guess that makes me quite the statistical outlier.

    15 some-odd years ago Jack Thompson said video games makes people violent. He was wrong. Tell me, how do video games make people sexist, then?

  139. scipio_92 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:28

    Yeah no. Sexy doesn't equal sexist, this game has already been number one in NA's eShop, stop click baiting, etc.

  140. JohnnyBravo4756 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:31

    Why is it that people get so booty burnt when it comes to women being perceived in a sexual way? What's the logic behind this, that I'll play Senran Kagura and I'll suddenly start hating any girl that doesn't have F Cup breasts? No. Also, what's the logic behind the statement that because a fictional girl has a huge chest and big hips is sexist? Am I putting down woman who don't have big boobs? Am I saying "IF YOU DON'T HAVE THESE THEN YOU ARE INFERIOR?" No. This crap where if you use an ideal woman and not an average looking girl is being sexist needs to stop.

    You want to contribute to a good cause? How about going to 3rd world countries and trying to get women's rights there? How about going somewhere where woman are actually being oppressed instead of complaining about how a Japanese game is hurting your feelings because there are busty women and how it's "derogatory" because they don't show the average girl.

  141. yoshi-cute Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:35

    is this thread even real

  142. Teh_Black_Mage Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:38

    Has it all stopped now.

  143. evilpinkdragon Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:40

    I genuinely think there are larger issues in the gaming industry than this, as others have previously said. There's nothing more I can add here that hasn't been stated already, but the gamefaqs invasion/flaming is both odd and a little overly-dramatic. Chill out, guys.
    May I also add in case it's been missed that the blogger does not work for ONM, and hostility over a difference of opinion is probably one of the problems with the internet that I despise the most. P.s. This is meant to be a family forum, please stop with the swears?
    To elaborate on my earlier post, the game is obviously marketed as cheeky, unashamedly pervy, fanservicey fun aimed at people who like that kind of thing. Whilst I'm not firmly in that camp and am rather anti-porn, I'm a big Hyperdimension Neptunia series fan (and intend to buy other games that are similar when I have the time to play them) and don't see anything wrong with these kind of games. My younger self would most definitely have felt threatened by the large boobies etc etc, but with maturity comes an acceptance that these girls aren't real. If any man (or woman) genuinely thinks of these characters as real people and uses them as a basis for judging real live humans against, they frankly have issues. I also don't really like when people use these games as a reason to wheel out the feminism debate; again, there are bigger fish to fry in the world when it comes to that area.

    They're videogames; fantastical, enjoyable and in some cases absurd, but generally not something to get your panties in a twist over.

  144. thechamp81 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:41

    Oh look another article by a white knight defending the honor of the fair maidens. He has probably never talked to a woman before.

  145. 3try Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:41

    Have the nerds stopped now

  146. Lisandra_brave Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:41

    I want to type up something long winded and snarky, but I know it's going to get either A) ignored, B) deleted, C) lost in the flood of posts, or D) all of the above, So I'm going to keep it short.

    I'm a female.
    I enjoy this game.
    These are empowering characters.
    Feminists give women a bad name.

    Thank you for your time.

  147. suppadoopa Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:42

    m-muh sexism

    there needs to be more games like Senran.

    Because of this article, I will import the the euro version of Senran just for that cover alone.

    Hell, I will also now encourage people to go the eShop and buy Senran. It's the game the 3DS deserves.

  148. SamuriFerret Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:43

    Well, reading this thread has been like watching a Train crash in slow motion. I can't stop watching but I know nothing good is going to come of it.

  149. yoshi-cute Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:44
  150. Time-Bomb Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:46

    Some would argue this thread is a poor reflection of the gaming industry. People are more keen to act like feminist scholars in the gaming community than discuss actual games. This article has 10 times the comments normal gaming articles get!

  151. 3try Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:48
  152. parkerpeters Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:50

    Senran Kagura: Burst is one of the best games out in 2013. It is not only an excellent brawler, but a great time sink. The visuals, characters, designs, story, and everything else, aside from being subjective, and purely a matter of taste, all of those things are a side to the game play. Let us not forget that video games are about game play. They are not "about" anything else. Let us not get confused and try to let a medium dedicated to fun become a platform for social change. It doesn't need to be, and frankly, the idea is vulgar. Forcing people to conform to your ideas of what is socially acceptable is not right matters of civil rights (gay rights, racial equality) are another matter. But this is not a matter of civil rights. It is an aesthetic preference that you do not find appealing. So don't buy the game. I bought the game because I love brawlers, I love crazy action, and lastly, I love to look at "pretty" women. Again, my vision of what is "pretty" is a woman with large breasts and a nice butt, I am not going to lie to you. But "pretty" is subjective too.

    We are all letting our feelings get hurt. This is a choice YOU make. It is an aesthetic choice, don't become a design Hitler.

  153. laughingjumpman Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 18:59

    I haven't read any of the comments yet at the time of posting this, but must say it made me chuckle to read the title, then see the number of comments there already were. It's nice to see something creating a bit of a debate (I say this, but I can imagine 'debate' might be a bit strong for some of the reactions this'll no doubt get).

    I'm not interested in buying this game at all, but I'm on the fence in terms of my reaction to it. On one hand, yes, I laugh at it as the trash it is, and the way it's going for lowest-common-denominator like a dog after a bone, and that it's rather ugly in how cynical and thoughtless it seems in doing so. On the other hand, it's a load of nonsense that I struggle to take too seriously without dismissing it as a bit of Carry On-like saucy fun.

    I do agree though that the characters in these sort of things do always look a bit young which edges it from what I just said into more creepy territory.

    Now I'm going to read the comments: I predict outrage from people that refuse to see any bad in videogames ever, and react like a child who's been threatened with having their toys taken away.

    I also predict arguments that it's 'no worse than violent games', as if violent games have never caused outrage at any point either.

    Aand I predict claims it's more than just boobs/it's a product of fine craftsmanship/it's the best game ever. Which I'm sure it is, but its clearly mostly boobs.

  154. Augus Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 19:00

    You essentially just sold me a game I've never heard of. If this is some sort of reverse psychology trick you people use to sell games I must admit it worked pretty well.

  155. Maitopurkki Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 19:02

    All this white knighting.
    Why can't people just enjoy them as games?
    I should start complaining about the power fantazisation of men at this rate

    I've had enough of feminists making everything "controversial" or "implied rape"

  156. LFF Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 19:08

    Well we've found a way to attract more new members guys...

  157. Celty Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 19:10


    You should probably read and reply to arguments before summarizing what you assume will be said as if they aren't completely valid points.

    For all these new posters making one reply, a good few are people trying to bring a point across. Almost the entire rest of page six of this thread besides those is people merely commenting on the thread being a train wreck (which it is, but saying so obviously isn't making it any less of one or promoting discussion).

  158. Lhant Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 19:14

    Just curious. Did you also think Gone Home is game of the year?

  159. MatthewONM Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 19:25

    You sir, are great at picking forum usernames.

    A fine example of ONM Staff chiming in on hot-button issues.

    Sorry, I'm a little too busy actually playing the game to come in and offer a half-formed opinion. I think the debate is distracting from the real issue: is the game actually any good? Answer in the next issue! *plug plug*

    Though I do like the people saying they'll buy the game just to spite Chris' blog. Maybe we should start writing posts about how Wii U is sexist and see if we can't turn its fortunes round, too.

  160. RobertK Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 19:33

    I think that both side of the argument are right in their own sense.

    I mean, on one hand, you do have games like this that objectify women and may give off a bad vibe,
    But at the same time, There are undoubtedly games that characterize guys as the cheater in a relationship or other aspects of that kind. Stereotypes exist and I suppose game designers have their right to play off them as much or as little as they want.

    No amount of disagreement over who has the right opinion with regards this game is gonna change the fact that it's been created, it's going to be released, and that it's going to be bought by the people it was intended for.

    Developers have a right to target a specific audience, (This game, more than likely pre-pubescent teens whereas the numerous shovelware games that are produced target the youngsters that just bought the system)

    If it works for them, let them create whatever, at the end of the day, it's them that will take the fall if it doesn't sell well, or on the other hand, it will be the purchaser enjoying his/her game.

    What I'm trying to get at is that everyone is entitled to their own opinions and own views on every aspect of this game and every other game out there, but there's not really any point trying to force my opinion on you or visa-versa.

    I respect Mr. Rooke for the article he has written, it was well put together and he expressed his views well. It's refreshing to see a piece like this on ONM. I have my own opinions on this game and it remains to be seen whether I'll buy it or not..

  161. RobertK Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 19:39

    This is the most ill-informed set of comments I've ever seen since the departure of the 'Nice Guys and The Friendzone' thread.
    Congratulations for spewing vitriolic, homophobic and misogynistic statements all in one place!
    I am genuinely impressed at your level of stupidity!

    Also, I have never found that my vagina impairs my ability to play games. Must be a scientific breakthrough.

    This has to be one of the BEST comments I have read on this forum, I tip my hat to thee my fair lady XD

  162. Rastamau5 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 19:40

    this entire thread

    http://puu.sh/6rXRc.gif

  163. astrogamer Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 19:46

    If a niche game like this is damaging the industry, god knows what Disney Channel is doing to the children. There is far more damning stuff in AAA games and popular TV shows. Those are objectifying women far more than this. How often do you see in those shows that women are rather shallow and obsess over shopping or behave stupidly and are central characters. Something like Senran Kagura is far less damaging only particularly affecting the target audience plus it actually has some decent gameplay for a brawler on the 3DS. And almost nobody but the hardcore really know about it. You really just informed hundreds of people about the game. Sexualization of women isn't what feminists should be particularly after since there is nothing wrong with a woman being sexy especially in something as unrealistic as this. Women are not sensitive beings that must be told by other media in order to have good self-esteem nor should they particularly care about how a single piece of media portrays them. Are men suppose to idolize characters like Nathan Drake and Snake and should be disappointed in themselves if they don't nearly have as good of a figure as them. Why do females have to do so then especially with something as unrealistic as this. In addition, why are clamoring that games like this shouldn't be made. If only games were made that only to appeal to everybody, we'd have a damn boring industry.
    And do some fact-checking please. The game hardly promotes you from letting the girls strip down to their underwear since it damages you and gives you a poorer score. Code of Princess does not promote sexualization of women since the entire thing is parodying various parts of gaming and Japanese culture. The 45% figure is most likely including mobile games and the percentage is probably lower on dedicated gaming devices and for genres such as brawlers.

  164. LewiiG Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 19:53

    As for it not harming anyone, and having no negative effect on life, then that comes down to a question of how much influence the normalisation of objectification can have on someone. I personally am of the opinion that if objectification is normalised then there is a danger of it having a degrading influence in which case yes it does harm people.


    That is possible indeed. But I think most people have the mind to know that it isn't normal, it won't become normal in life, and what is seen in fiction has no bearing on how life should be or work. Of course, there are always a few that can't tell the difference and get offended or think of things or act differently because of what fiction portrays. I just wish these people would I dunno, see things more realistically.

    If the game was only out in Japan then I would have no criticism because I fully recognise that their culture is different, However this game is being released in the west, for a western audience, and at that point it is hardly unfair to look at it with a western morality.


    Fair enough. The difference is just so suprising sometimes. So many games like this are never released outside of Japan because of the difference in morals/what is normal. And if they are, they are censored to some degree. I'm just glad SKB made it here. This article indirectly tells Japan not to make these kind of games. Which will never happen.

  165. Argenthor Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 19:56

    Sorry, I'm a little too busy actually playing the game to come in and offer a half-formed opinion. I think the debate is distracting from the real issue: is the game actually any good? Answer in the next issue! *plug plug*

    Though I do like the people saying they'll buy the game just to spite Chris' blog. Maybe we should start writing posts about how Wii U is sexist and see if we can't turn its fortunes round, too.

    Ha, nice. If only it were that simple... I'm sure there's an argument for that somewhere though.

  166. Slammurai Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 20:04

    This is one of the most stupidest things I've ever read. It is people like you who are ruining our gaming society by making up a bunch of crap ASSUMING that this game objectifies women. HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOUR! You're not a feminist so don't act one. They will continue to make games like this and I hope the popularity of it will go higher just to p**s off idiots like yourself.

    People. Buy this game. It is VERY good. Chris Rooke completely missed the point and I've never facepalmed so hard after reading this "article". Pure trash of an article if you ask me.

    You ought to be a shamed of yourself, Chris.

    Do you believe in equality for men and women?

    If so, you are a feminist too. Your post is one of the "most stupidest" (as you put it - seriously, two superlatives? Learn to grammar!) things I've ever read too. Well done to ONM for sticking their neck out and allowing this to be posted - it's certainly not something you see every day.

    I'm a male who believes in equality for men and women, but I refuse to call myself a feminist, if only because the word FEMINIST quite obviously sounds like it favors women. I prefer to call myself a Humanist, since, you know, that's what Men and Women both are.

    Just Saiyan

  167. Slammurai Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 20:06

    "Or indeed, when did a game make a big deal out of the fact that a male character was wearing few clothes?"

    Tales of Legendia. Mimi the Baker was quite afraid of Moses Sandor, which Norma Beatty suggested was probably because he wasn't wearing a shirt. Also, Radiata Stories; See below.

    "I can't recall any game that I've played where a man's crotch was the sole focus of the camera at all"

    Radiata Stories. When Jack Russel walks into a room in the Distortion Corridor, he meets up with Gabriel Celeste, a male, who is only wearing an underwear and there's a brief shot of his crotch that takes up at least 60% of the camera (with dramatic music). Jack clearly looks completely disgusted and mortified, and proceeds to run far away, while Celeste gives chase.

  168. laughingjumpman Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 20:10


    You should probably read and reply to arguments before summarizing what you assume will be said as if they aren't completely valid points.

    For all these new posters making one reply, a good few are people trying to bring a point across. Almost the entire rest of page six of this thread besides those is people merely commenting on the thread being a train wreck (which it is, but saying so obviously isn't making it any less of one or promoting discussion).

    Oh, I know I should really. I've just seen a fair few similar discussions of the game on reviews of it, and was interested to see if my predictions based on that would ring true here too(which having a quick look through, some have been, some far less so than I thought). That and I realised by the time I saw this, and the volume of comments would mean that I don't have the time (or at least patience) to go through them all properly, and in many places people far more clued up than me (when it comes to this topic at the very least) have offered far better/more meaningful replies than I could really offer.

    I won't argue in depth whether the game itself is sexist or not, because I don't feel qualified to make that particular judgement with any authority. I'm a bloke, and will (as I have already) happily pass it off as harmless fun in its own right, but I'd like to believe I'm mindful enough of others to realise that it's going to be viewed rather differently by many women. At the same time, because I've always been an owner of a pair of testicles, I'm not going to try and claim to speak on behalf or in defence of those that don't, because I don't know what it's like, and anything I said in that vein wouldn't be very meaningful. Otherwise all I can do is complain about the way it can negatively affect me and my chosen hobby. I just cringe a bit at games like this because, though in isolation just a bit of harmless nonsense, when taken as one of numerous examples, it doesn't improve some of the negative aspects of gaming as a hobby. Like the image that it's a pastime reserved solely for basement-dwelling man-children with zero social skills, or that it's not for girls at all (people's comments here eager to dismiss many of the 45% of gamers who are female as 'casuals' or 'not real gamers' don't help this either).

    In short: I don't know if this game is objectifying and therefore bad or not, but the reaction to it proves that many gamers need to grow up and realise that lots of different people enjoy games.

    So yeah, if you've bothered to read all that I'm not sure whether to thank you for taking the time or offer my apologies/commiserations.

    On another note, it's good to see something a bit more colourful than just straight up news/reviews getting put up on here, and would love to see more on such apparently controversial topics. If the ONM team can bear the bile they'll get from a lot of commenters, that is. I wouldn't blame them if they'd rather not though, seeing some of the stuff getting flung at them already. Good on 'Mr. Rooke' for sticking his neck out anyway.

  169. laughingjumpman Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 20:15

    Also, sorry to double post, but for Christ's sake can people stop bringing up random obscure instances of men getting nekkid in games, and acting as if it undermines Rooke's whole point.

    Because it really, really, really (really!) doesn't. They're arguably the 'exclusions that prove the rule'.

  170. snes2 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 20:19

    I don't see why people getting mad that games are targeted towards men. They are the main demographic in the video game industry and at the end of the day game companies want to make money, so why make a game towards a lower market? There are women out there who obviously enjoy video games but from a business point of view there is no point in doing it as the company won't make money.


    Now that I have that out of the way.......
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VdiH4iIL2Os/Ut1NSA_FhpI/AAAAAAAABo8/hP6UtAD8bdk/s1600/tin_foil_hat.gif
    ONM articles never really had a persons political opinions involved in them. But this article barely talks about the game and more about his views. Just look at the amount of comments and responses this article got, it could merely be an attempt to get more page views.

    More page views = More money.

  171. AJWolfTill Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 20:41

    Very upset to see there are people who are completely oblivious to the problem in the comments section. Not suprised in the least, everywhere gaming site has palladins of msyogeny lurking somewhere. This was a good read and mirrored my attitude to this game perfectly.

  172. KaptainKrauser Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 20:45

    It's pretty depressing that this is the most active ONM's been for months.

  173. Kutabare Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 20:46

    I am speechless. Speechless at the level of hypocrisy and bulls**t condensed into a mere two pages.
    Senran Kagura being the 'worst kind of game' around. What the F**???
    Sorry - the last time I looked at some popular online shooter the (mostly young folks) absolutely enjoyed blowing the living daylights out of each other while screaming racial/homophone/brain-sick insults into their headsets. One of the most popular and most beloved games, God of War 3 ended with a scene that basically let you beat your own father to a pulp as long as you desired - and the gaming community loved it. Games like Call of Duty let you get close up and eliminate your foes in every way possible - even with a machete to the head shown close up. And we could go on and on: the more violent a game, the more popular it gets. Killing sells. Mass murder sells.
    Do I think that this is wrong... actually NO. Because I realize that this is just fantasy being played out. Contrary to what some religious Republican nut-jobs in the USA or some leftists do-gooders in Europe try to tell you, playing Call of Duty *WILL NOT* make you into a mass murderer.
    And the same goes for games like Senran Kagura. They are nothing but games - and in the same way the 15 year old excelling in death-matches in online shooters won't grab a rifle and run amok at the local kindergarten, he won't be turned into a pedophile rapist by playing this.
    I find it rather disturbing though, that you seem to be more offended by seeing a girl in underwear than you are by all the killing and murdering in 85% of all videogames. In fact such a bigoted mindset relates somehow to people who suddenly snap and become a danger to society.
    But then again, we already had the same discussion decades ago. When the first Japanese Mangas reached the Western market in the 90th, there were some voices that the mere image of a nude female Ranma in Rumiko Takahashis famous Manga series would pollute the minds of readers and that is should be outlawed and prohibited.
    So you are basically a relic of bygone times, and in fact quite close to the bigotry that here in the west still is most prominent with the religious right in the USA.
    Oh - and if you really care about things being degrading to women, then there are still two ancient and major religions running rampant around the globe, which preach that women are nothing more than child-bearing-machines. Those antediluvian view seems to be on the retreat in the western world (albeit not fast enough) but they are running more and more rampant in certain other parts of the globe. How about directing your anger instead at some western leftist, who claim that the barbaric act of circumcision of female newborns is a 'cherished cultural legacy'?
    So, regarding your blog entry, I can only (mis-)quote the Simpsons 'Comic Book Guy':
    WORST BLOG EVER!

  174. LeanGreenBeans Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 20:56

    Games like Senran Kagura only encourage Japanese developers to make crappy games with over the top fanservice, because they know it'll sell. That's why it's bad for the industry.

    The notion that it's somehow damaging to women is ridiculous.

  175. Celty Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 21:01

    Also, sorry to double post, but for Christ's sake can people stop bringing up random obscure instances of men getting nekkid in games, and acting as if it undermines Rooke's whole point.

    Because it really, really, really (really!) doesn't. They're arguably the 'exclusions that prove the rule'.


    I read your other post, and I generally agree with it, but this I absolutely do not.

    Men are heavily sexualised in media, just like women, and almost all men in media are essentially unreachable Adonis'. Regardless of where you look this is exceptionally common.

    First off, Senran Kagura itself is an obscure work, so claiming "random or obscure works" don't apply is absurd because the initial example is one. If you want to compare actual standards of beauty for the sexes in modern media, you're right, you shouldn't look at niche or obscure products. In which case, you should look at the standards of industries and their most common practices.

    What are most Hollywood movie male protagonists? Attractive 20 - 30 somethings, usually stubbled and fitting of the modern definition of attractive.
    What is the traditional image of the male superhero in comics? A ridiculously muscled man in skintight clothing.
    What do the majority of male Street Fighter characters look like (and the same applies to the rest of the genre considering how much Street Fighter influences it)? In Street Fighter 4, Adon, Dee Jay, E Honda, El Fuerte, Evil Ryu, Fei Long, Gouken, Hakan, Seth, Sagat, Vega and Zangief are all essentially or completely shirtless, and the rest of the cast with the exception of Rufus, are so hyper muscular that their muscles show through their clothing.

    These aren't random or obscure. The first two are massive standards of entire industries, and the last is from one of the most iconic games in the history of video games. Senran Kagura is random and obscure, and is the least likely thing to damage this industry because of it. The fact of the matter is that people like seeing attractive people or characters. People like seeing attractive men, and people like seeing attractive women. And that includes men wanting to see attractive men and women wanting to see attractive women.

    This shouldn't be a problem. As I said earlier about Senran Kagura, appreciation of the human form is completely normal. This applies both ways, so it applies to the standards for male attractiveness brought forth by my previous examples. There is no reason to be offended by appreciation of something as completely and utterly natural as what people of the opposite gender look like.

  176. Arakune Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 21:03

    Also, sorry to double post, but for Christ's sake can people stop bringing up random obscure instances of men getting nekkid in games, and acting as if it undermines Rooke's whole point.

    Because it really, really, really (really!) doesn't. They're arguably the 'exclusions that prove the rule'.


    Nice double standards. This whole discussion is about an obscure game.

    And i wouldn't call Saints Row and Metal Gear "obscure".

  177. MichaelJohnson90 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 21:07

    "They're almost always portrayed as busty, slim, attractive people - an almost impossible feat in real life"

    If you're standard for video games is that they feature no one doing impossible feats, you might as well just ban all video games.

  178. Nettacki Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 21:18

    The fact of the matter is that people like seeing attractive people or characters. People like seeing attractive men, and people like seeing attractive women. And that includes men wanting to see attractive men and women wanting to see attractive women.

    This shouldn't be a problem. As I said earlier about Senran Kagura, appreciation of the human form is completely normal. This applies both ways, so it applies to the standards for male attractiveness brought forth by my previous examples. There is no reason to be offended by appreciation of something as completely and utterly natural as what people of the opposite gender look like.

    While I do agree that people like seeing attractive men and women and there's nothing particularly wrong with that, I think the problem extends beyond merely appreciating attractive men and women. The article mentions something about objectification, which is defined as "someone is being treated not as a human but as a "thing" for others to ogle at," meaning that the attitude some people have towards attractive characters is the real problem because they see them *only* as some sexy piece of meat to fap to, not an actual character to relate to and go through the plights of.

  179. d715 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 21:24

    If they don't like it then they don't buy it.

    Not everything has to tatoir to every signal person who plays games you know.

    Look at movies and book or TV. Notice who they're hundreds of different types of them and not all are design to be watched by everyone.
    If you check out the genre its label as Seinen which is 18-30 year old males. Josei is the female counterpart.


    Do you really think women are so low self esteem that 2d anime drawings would make them quit gaming forever?

    REALLY??

    This is why feminism is a joke people, idiots like this use it to click bait

  180. Waamaomao Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 21:33

    Hi, I just wanted to thank you for this article. I had never heard of Senran Kagura before this.

    I went and bought it from the Nintendo 3DS eShop right after I was done reading.

  181. Celty Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 21:40

    While I do agree that people like seeing attractive men and women and there's nothing particularly wrong with that, I think the problem extends beyond merely appreciating attractive men and women. The article mentions something about objectification, which is defined as "someone is being treated not as a human but as a "thing" for others to ogle at," meaning that the attitude some people have towards attractive characters is the real problem because they see them *only* as some sexy piece of meat to fap to, not an actual character to relate to and go through the plights of.


    That's a problem of the individual people, not the game, and not reason enough to claim a game is "damaging the industry".

    If you have a problem with a particular persons actions or morals, take it up with them (this includes boycotting a game if you disagree with the creators morals), but don't attempt to decry a work merely because it goes against your own values and claim it is detrimental to the medium.

  182. Rastamau5 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 21:50

    If they don't like it then they don't buy it.

    Not everything has to tatoir to every signal person who plays games you know.

    Look at movies and book or TV. Notice who they're hundreds of different types of them and not all are design to be watched by everyone.
    If you check out the genre its label as Seinen which is 18-30 year old males. Josei is the female counterpart.


    Do you really think women are so low self esteem that 2d anime drawings would make them quit gaming forever?

    REALLY??

    This is why feminism is a joke people, idiots like this use it to click bait


    http://puu.sh/6s88S.PNG

  183. Fubz Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 21:54

    Not everything has to tatoir to every signal person who plays games you know.


    Lol'd

  184. Bleachyleachy Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 22:37

    This thread

    I'm going to bed

  185. Kutabare Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 22:40

    The article mentions something about objectification, which is defined as "someone is being treated not as a human but as a "thing" for others to ogle at," meaning that the attitude some people have towards attractive characters is the real problem because they see them *only* as some sexy piece of meat to fap to, not an actual character to relate to and go through the plights of.

    In that case, don't worry!

    Senran Kagura is far away from the of Japanese 'Porn-Games' of which there are legion.

    The game actually tries to give each and every character a solid back-story - at times the original game feels more like a visual novel - however this is obviously ignored by everyone not fluent in the Japanese language. Hopefully they hired good translators, because without the story-telling the game is just a just a run-of-the-mill beat-em-up. Not too bad, but not too good either. It's the storytelling that counts, and in this aspect Senran Kagura Burst shines.

  186. ngAsBadPublicity Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 22:54

    Cool! Thanks for letting me know about this game, it looks like it's right up my alley. Nice and cute and fast paced. According to some reviews I found, the gameplay is really quite good, so I just put in my preorder.

    Thanks a lot!

    -- There'sNoSuchThi

  187. laughingjumpman Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 23:02


    Men are heavily sexualised in media, just like women, and almost all men in media are essentially unreachable Adonis'. Regardless of where you look this is exceptionally common.

    First off, Senran Kagura itself is an obscure work, so claiming "random or obscure works" don't apply is absurd because the initial example is one. If you want to compare actual standards of beauty for the sexes in modern media, you're right, you shouldn't look at niche or obscure products. In which case, you should look at the standards of industries and their most common practices.

    (I did read the lot, just cut the quote down for brevity).

    As for what I meant by the 'obscure' comment, I didn't mean that obscure games didn't count (as yourself and other less reasonable individuals have read it, looking at a few other replies I've got lol). What I was getting at was - there's a lot of games which portray women in a similar way (though maybe not quite as bluntly as Kagura does) and use that as a selling point, or to market them in a 'sex sells' kind of way (even the original Tomb Raider's marketing made a selling point of its star's assets, having her on the cover of lads' mags etc., the DoA series released a volleyball game for similar reasons, just to give a couple of more mainstream examples). It's part of what many would see as a wider problem, which many comments here and the article itself allude to as well.

    I was taking issue with people picking a couple of 'obscure' examples from other games in that they were picking one small bit of other games (whether niche or big blockbuster/AAA titles), and essentially saying that those few example balanced everything out. And that's what they were, often just single events from games, not even full games which revolved around the objectification of men in the same kind of way.

    I see what you're saying about the way men are portrayed, and yeah, many are brave statuesque types. But I'd argue that the issue that the article raises isn't so much that games just show some sort of idealised form of man or woman, more that it takes said idealised image, then parades it as an object of desire, which what provokes the cries of 'objectification!'. Sure, lots of games star manly macho muscle men, but very few (none that I'm aware of) basically scream 'aren't they sexy!', 'don't you want a piece of him!' at the player while doing so. A lot of games feature burly space marines, for instance, but few of said games make a concerted effort to make anyone view them as an object of sexual desire.

    Going off track a bit, but related: I suppose you could also argue that far more games portray/star men that aren't conventionally attractive than women that aren't conventionally attractive.

    Basically: Name me a game in recent years which has received a boxed console release over here that present men in the same way that Kagura does with women, and market themselves on that fact. That's why many take issue with it, imbalance.

    I struggle to keep things concise, but hope I'm making some sense at least.

    Look at what you've made me do, I had every intention of not wading into all this! I have to say though, I take some joy in the thought that someone else seemingly made an account on here just to shout me down. I didn't realise I could provoke that sort of reaction in people.

  188. Bunnytots Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 23:12

    What is more damaging than any game is the gaming journalism that caters to this Social Justice Warrior fad. If you want video games to be art (or view them as art), then don't try to censor the industry by calling the games that don't appeal to you damaging. Gaming journalism should stick to actual game discussions and news, not try to stir the pot with issues that don't exist in the first place. This will only make you lose credibility in the sane people who didn't latch on to some internet crusade against nothing.

    If you consider yourself a feminist at all, there are plenty of problems in the Asias and Middle East for you to sort. Video games should be at the bottom of the list.

  189. nrubyiglith Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 23:21

    I commented on this article yesterday, but I want to follow-up with my final thoughts on this matter. If you only read one of the many comments on this article, please read this one because it really is an important issue with the video game scene right now:

    I know this article is just click-bait trash made to pull in visitors from other websites with its easily-deconstructable arguments for ad revenue (I'm using Adblock, though), but it still worries me because this attitude is getting a lot of Japanese games censored when they're released in the West, and that's if they even get released in the West at all. Even Senran Kagura Burst had all the character's ages censored, and the XSEED guy in charge of the translation said he considered that a personal blight on his record. That's what's really damaging the industry, not cute girls: censorship.

    It's usually just small stuff like dialogue changes or that little curtain over Tharja's butt in the EU version of Fire Emblem Awakening's DLC, but it's still a miracle that Senran Kagura Burst got translated in the first place, even if it's just a digital-only release. Remember that the 3DS is region-locked, so it's not like you can just buy the Japanese version and play that. There's been tons of legitimately good Japanese games that were never released in the West. Mother 3 was one of the best turn-based RPGs of all time, but it was only released in Japan.

    Articles like this that are completely ignorant of Japanese culture and haven't even played the game that it's talking about are just strengthening the divide between East and West. All they do is encourage publishers to think that the two audiences and cultures are incompatible and that they can't translate Japanese games without a backlash like this. Please remember that Chris himself said on his Twitter that he's never played Senran Kagura Burst, but still says people should boycott the game and encourage XSEED to not translate the rest of the series.

    All this is doing is ruining the fun for people (including women) who like Japanese games like the Senran Kagura series. None of the girls I've talked to that have actually played Senran Kagura Burst have any problem with the sexy girls in it, but you know what they actually do have a problem with? Not having a chance to play Japanese games like this or having them censored like Bravely Default. This is what's really hurting the video game industry. Even if you don't like erotic Japanese games, please be respectful for people who do. Don't mess it up for everyone by telling publishers the Western audience isn't mature enough to handle content like this.

    People in the video game "journalism" business love to talk about how video games are a form of art, but they're also always the one talking about how they need to be censored like this. You can't have your cake and eat it, too, though. Censoring art is completely missing the point of art. Art isn't supposed to not hurt your feelings, but convey the artist's ideas, even if you don't personally don't like them. There's plenty of famous works of art that have naked children in them, but that doesn't make it okay to demand that they're censored and the artist change it. Then, why, is this an acceptable attitude to take towards video games? Are video games art or not? If an artist wants to make a game to "wrap the world in happy boobs", then he's completely within his right to do that.

    So please don't damage the industry any more by telling publishers that Westerners are too genophobic to handle Japanese games. I know women who like Adult-only pornographic Japanese video games. Even if you don't like those types of video games, please respect the girls that do like them. If you think you're somehow helping women by writing that those kinds of games should be censored, you're not. Even if this imaginary woman you like to talk about who gets offended by seeing shinobi with big breasts actually exists, so what? The game clearly isn't for her. That's fine -- not everything needs to be for everyone. I don't play sports games, but I don't say they need to be banned because I don't like them. Any women who think that the human body is too disgusting to see in a video game are not the target audience of games like that, and they're not going to play them in the first place. The only thing you'll accomplish is denying erotic games from the women who do like them. How is that helping anyone -- male or female?

  190. gillytine777 Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 23:23

    I couldn't agree more with RollyKahn (especially as you neglect the LGBT community altogether), and I would add that I find the article extremely patronising, especially because you said I'm a feminist just because I'd prefer equality for men and women. I'm not a feminist, but in the same breath that also doesn't make me a misogynist (though that seems to be the accusation whenever someone declares that they aren't a feminist or that they aren't fond of 'feminazis').

    Furthermore, I don't think that the article is very well written, and am surprised that ONM have seen fit to publish it. There are a multitude of typos and grammatical errors ("there's more women playing games") and reads very much like you've either 'spat the dummy out' or are trying to score some kind of fair representation points, which would explain the overly patronising tone.

    There are a great deal of strong/quality women characters, and there will be many in the future. A bigger issue at the moment is the comparative lack of similarly strong black and hispanic protagonists, but again, I'm confident we'll see a great deal of those in the near future too.

    Anyway Chris, I hope this doesn't dishearten you or offend you too much, but I do hope you take my comments on board.

  191. Celty Monday 20th Jan 2014 at 23:54

    I see what you're saying about the way men are portrayed, and yeah, many are brave statuesque types. But I'd argue that the issue that the article raises isn't so much that games just show some sort of idealised form of man or woman, more that it takes said idealised image, then parades it as an object of desire, which what provokes the cries of 'objectification!'. Sure, lots of games star manly macho muscle men, but very few (none that I'm aware of) basically scream 'aren't they sexy!', 'don't you want a piece of him!' at the player while doing so. A lot of games feature burly space marines, for instance, but few of said games make a concerted effort to make anyone view them as an object of sexual desire.


    Again, I'll go back to my Street Fighter 4 example. This isn't even "bald space marine" type. Almost the entire male roster are hyper muscular, shirtless adonis', far beyond even the other examples of male attractiveness in media I gave. These are stylistically designed to be attractive, and designed to be absolutely idealized forms of the male physique. That isn't all that different from Senran Kagura or its female cast.

    Basically: Name me a game in recent years which has received a boxed console release over here that present men in the same way that Kagura does with women, and market themselves on that fact. That's why many take issue with it, imbalance.


    I know such games do exist, at least Japan, but I can't name one. I'm no expert on the genre though. There certainly are works in other mediums that present men as attractive things for women to lust over, and if the games that serve the same purpose in the west aren't available, it merely means the niche for them is too small.

    Look at what you've made me do, I had every intention of not wading into all this! I have to say though, I take some joy in the thought that someone else seemingly made an account on here just to shout me down. I didn't realise I could provoke that sort of reaction in people.


    I hope that's not what you think I'm doing. I've had an account here for a while and just recently started posting in the past week or so, but saw this thread and took part. Unless I'm mistaken and you're referring to others, in which case, my mistake.

  192. jonnyjazz Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 00:04

    This thread has certainly stepped it up a notch since I last looked at it haha. But from a personal perspective I really couldn't care less about Senran Kagura Burst (largely because I have no idea what it is). Although what appears to have happened is that one of the most lengthy discussions I've seen on an ONM article appears to have been created by someone who is advocating that everyone should ignore this game. Simply put there is no such thing as bad publicity and those who were intent on buying this game likely will regardless, but it has also brought the game to the attention of a lot of people who probably would never have noticed it in the release schedule.

    So while I enjoyed the article and find that opinion pieces do make a refreshing change from generic top 5 lists, I'd rather they were more videogames orientated. Rather than trying to solve contentious issues like the objectification of women on a website about videogames (which to me seems like a bit of a long shot).

  193. Rocket Raccoon Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 00:04

    A niche title that hardly anyone is going to buy is 'damaging the industry'? Give over. Besides, there are tons of games like this out there already (the majority of which haven't made it over here, admittedly).

    Now I remember why I stopped buying this bloody magazine.

  194. StarvingGamer Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 00:09

    Oh boy, another year of "journalists" that don't actually know what "misogyny" means.

  195. Sir_Bowser Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 00:23

    I don't see why people getting mad that games are targeted towards men. They are the main demographic in the video game industry and at the end of the day game companies want to make money, so why make a game towards a lower market? There are women out there who obviously enjoy video games but from a business point of view there is no point in doing it as the company won't make money.

    Is now the time where I remind you that 45% of gamers are women?
    You don't have to radically change a game to be aimed at 'boys' or 'girls', I like to think we're a bit more grown up than that. All anybody is asking for is to see their gender being shown as an interesting and engaging addition to the game rather than a dull 2D sex object. It's really not that difficult.

    oh my god why am I doing this hahaha

  196. nrubyiglith Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 00:59

    But I'd argue that the issue that the article raises isn't so much that games just show some sort of idealised form of man or woman, more that it takes said idealised image, then parades it as an object of desire, which what provokes the cries of 'objectification!'. Sure, lots of games star manly macho muscle men, but very few (none that I'm aware of) basically scream 'aren't they sexy!', 'don't you want a piece of him!' at the player while doing so. A lot of games feature burly space marines, for instance, but few of said games make a concerted effort to make anyone view them as an object of sexual desire.

    Going off track a bit, but related: I suppose you could also argue that far more games portray/star men that aren't conventionally attractive than women that aren't conventionally attractive.

    Basically: Name me a game in recent years which has received a boxed console release over here that present men in the same way that Kagura does with women, and market themselves on that fact. That's why many take issue with it, imbalance.

    This is just a list of Otome games from TVTropes that I copy and pasted, so you could probably find a lot more if you went looking. You say that there are none that you're aware of, but do you actually play Otome games? If not, how can you say you don't know of any games that sexualize men when you don't actively look for and play games that sexualize men? That's ridiculous. If you're a casual that only plays mainstream AAA games like Call of Duty, obviously you'd think there are no games about sexy men. You'd think that every game is Call of Duty. Here's that list you asked for:

    Always Remember Me
    Amnesia
    Angelique series
    Arabians Lost
    Arcana Famiglia
    Be My Princess
    Brothers Conflict
    Cafe Rouge
    Cinders
    Crimson Empire ~Circumstances To Serve A Noble~
    Chrono Days Sim Date
    Class Trip Crush
    Date Warp
    Dandelion - Wishes Brought to You -
    Diabolik Lovers
    Dreamy Days In West Tokyo
    The Fantasia Trilogy
    Fatal Hearts
    Frozen Essence
    Haku?ki
    Harukanaru Toki no Naka de series
    Hatoful Boyfriend
    Heart no Kuni no Alice (Alice in the Country of Hearts)
    Hiiro No Kakera
    In Your Arms Tonight
    La Corda d'Oro series
    Kiss Of Revenge
    A Knights Devotion
    Love Letter From Thief X
    Lucky Rabbit Reflex
    Magical Diary
    Marginal Prince
    Matches And Matrimony: A Pride and Prejudice Tale
    Meine Liebe series
    My Candy Love
    My Forged Wedding
    My Sweet Bodyguard
    Nameless - The One Thing You Must Recall -
    Neo Angelique
    Oracle Of Tao
    Office Secrets
    Our Two Bedroom Story
    Pirates In Love
    (P)lanets
    Princess Debut
    Quest Twilight Prince Prophecy Chronicals
    RE: Alistair
    Re Prince Of Nigeria
    The Royal Trap
    The Second Reproduction
    Seduced In The Sleepless City
    Starry Sky series
    Sweet Fuse At Your Side
    Ten Days With My Devil
    Tokimeki Memorial Girls Side]] series
    Under The Moon
    Uta No Prince-sama
    X Note
    Yo-Jin-Bo

  197. TheRealLuigi Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 01:40

    "Well, here's your fun fact for the day: the Entertainment Software Association estimates that 45% of all gamers are female."

    Hey, guess what--45% of all gamers don't have to play the game then! Nobody has to play it!

    Why can't developers make the games they want and consumers buy the games they want? Oh, wait...they can.

    Senran Kagura Burst is damaging the gaming industry as much as pornography is damaging the movie industry.

  198. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 01:42

    Oh dearie dearie me… Where do I even begin? Seriously, I don't know. I've had to rewrite this comment numerous times just because I didn't even know what to say in response to such a ridiculous article. Guess I'll crack out the ol' Q&A format, since those tend to work well. To help me with it, I've got some random crazy person who seems to actually agree with the article here to ask the questions. Okay, let's start.

    Hi Yirba! I hear you're really annoyed about this article. But quite frankly, you're completely wrong about it!
    No no, my crazy friend. You're the one who's wrong. Let's start with your main argument. You claim that the game objectifies women, right?

    Yes. This is a very bad game because it treats women as mere objects.
    Well, I think we can both agree that the game sexualises the characters in the game, but can you really say that it objectifies women in general? After all, the game doesn't have arms that reach out of the screen and molests women, does it?

    Oh. No it doesn't. Silly me for confusing characters in a game with human beings in real life.

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 0 ? 1 <<<

    But hang on, women won't like these games. They'll feel objectified by them!
    Hold it! I'll concede that some women would feel like that. But you can't say that every woman is like that. That's called generalisation, and it's sexist.

    Noooooo! I'm a filthy sexist! I thought I was trying to be a feminist, but I suppose I've lost track somewhere… :-(
    Don't worry, my good friend, just don't do it again.

    But hang on, are there really any women who wouldn't feel objectified by this game?
    Indeed there are! In fact, from my experience working in the games industry, I've met many women who love playing games like this.

    Wow, I never knew!

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 1 ? 2 <<<

    Wait a second. Why would women even play a game like this? The female characters are heavily sexualised! And women are supposed to like men, right?
    Wrong! Believe it or not, there are actually a lot of women who are sexually attracted to other women, you homophobe!

    OMG! Is that really true?! (O_O)

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 2 ? 4 <<<

    …Also, the game isn't just about being sexy. It also has some pretty fun gameplay, too. So even heterosexual or asexual women can enjoy that. (I'll save arguing against the gender binary and other such matters for another day.)

    Incredible… I never realised that a game's gameplay can be an appealing factor!

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 4 ? 8 <<<

    Tell me this, though: There aren't any games that sexualise men, so surely that's got to be sexist?
    Assuming your claim to be true…

    ???
    Assuming your claim to be true, it is indeed sexist.

    So you agree! In that case, we need to get rid of this sort of game. Because sexism is bad, don't you agree?
    I do agree that sexism is bad. Believe it or not, I'm actually a strong proponent of gender equality. But isn't there a better way to counter this sexism?

    I don't think so… These games are sexist. Therefore they need to be got rid of.
    Not so fast. In fact, these games aren't sexist at all. It's society that is sexist. Getting rid of these games wouldn't be fun for the people who enjoy them. And they have every right to enjoy them. It's called freedom of expression.

    But if there is sexism, something needs to be done about it.
    I agree. But don't you think there's another way to solve the problem than to get rid of these games?

    I can't think of any… Please enlighten me!
    Okay, so we've determined that things are out-of-balance on the gender equality side of things. It's a bit like a scale. If scales are out-of-balance, there are two things you can do to bring them back into balance again. First, there's your way, which is to take stuff out of the heavier end of the scale. …But there's actually another method. You can put things into the lighter end!

    Eureka! I think I'm starting to get it!
    Good. So instead of getting rid of games with sexualised women, we need more games with sexualised men!

    Brilliant idea. You really are a genius, Yirba!
    Thank you.

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 8 ? 16 <<<

    But how can we accomplish this?
    Good news. You had it wrong all along. There are already games that sexualise men! I'm going to teach you about two genres of game. First is the otome game. These are games primarily intended for women, and they focus on romantic and sexual interactions with men.

    I never knew…

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 16 ? 32 <<<

    Also, there are games called boys' love games or yaoi games. You remember how I said there are women who are sexually attracted to other women? Well, the same is true with men! There are men who like men!

    Really?! You know so much, Yirba…
    Not much more than the average intelligent human being. So anyway, these boys' love games involve male characters who have romantic/sexual experiences with other men!

    Wow…

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 32 ? 64 <<<

    But why haven't I seen any of these games?
    Well, they're actually quite a niche and mostly limited to the Japanese market. And this goes back to what I was saying about society being sexist. We need to stop blaming games, and blame ourselves for the problems we have. We need to increase diversity in the genres of game that are available by encouraging games that sexualise characters of all gender identities. We need to make the whole world a bit more ero, one step at a time. Because sexy games can be fun for anyone. And everyone who wants to play sexy games should have the opportunity to do so. And for anyone who doesn't like sexy games, that's fine, too! You don't have to play them. Just allow those of us who do want to play them to do so.

    Such wise words…

    And there we have it. I think that about covers everything. Random Crazy Person's brain now has eight bytes worth of capacity, and I hope your IQ has levelled up, too!

    I realise I've been a little bit blunt with this comment, and it hasn't been worded anywhere near to my usual standards of writing, but this is a topic I feel very strongly about, and I felt it was important to let me thoughts known. And I'd be happy to respond to any questions or comments directed at me, regardless of how you feel. Because communication is important. :-)

    It's not my intention to offend anyone, but if there's anything damaging the industry, it's not Senran Kagura Burst — it's the people who are so close-minded that they wish to suck the fun out of videogames for people whose tastes are different to theirs.

    ???????????

  199. TGWTF Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 01:50

    I don't see why people getting mad that games are targeted towards men. They are the main demographic in the video game industry and at the end of the day game companies want to make money, so why make a game towards a lower market? There are women out there who obviously enjoy video games but from a business point of view there is no point in doing it as the company won't make money.

    Is now the time where I remind you that 45% of gamers are women?
    You don't have to radically change a game to be aimed at 'boys' or 'girls', I like to think we're a bit more grown up than that. All anybody is asking for is to see their gender being shown as an interesting and engaging addition to the game rather than a dull 2D sex object. It's really not that difficult.

    oh my god why am I doing this hahaha

    That result is counting women who play Facebook and mobile games, and probably won't ever know that this game exists. And need I mention that women (in this topic) have already repeatedly mentioned that they don't care. In fact, some of them have mentioned that "feminist's" irritate them, and are sick of femenist's trying to speak on their behalf's.

    On a side note: This topic could (possibly) adversely affect how people view ONM. Mathew has gone on record as saying that this guy isn't a staff member of ONM, but staff or no, its ONM that's hosting his blog post, thus it still sort of falls on their hands.

    God, I hope I didn't put my foot in my mouth.

  200. KonkeyDong69 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 01:58

    Thanks for this brave and perceptive article. Maybe when the industry is rid of games like "Sexist Kagura Burst", I will be able to leave the house without feeling ashamed of the fact that I don't look like an underage Japanese girl with abnormally large breasts and frequently visible panties.

  201. Farranger Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 02:21

    Going to the Bleach and girls in the bikinis is alright.
    Watch a movie and busty chicks with bikinis is alright.
    Read a comic and busty chicks with bikinis is alright.
    Watch a commercial and busty chicks with bikinis is alright.

    Playing a game with busty chicks with bikinis is not alright.

    Okay. WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON HERE?

    Not the Bleach, Movie, Comic, and Commerical industry. Y'all need to target those industry as well.

    LET"S ALL BE MUSLIMS AND COVER ALL THE FEMALE BODIES.

  202. LordSpectreX Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 02:29

    Thanks Mr Rooke. Your brave and inspired article will hopefully bring us one step closer to strong empowered female characters.

    I look forward to your next article telling people not to buy the incredibly sexist Mario games. After all, the series has helpless feminine damsel in distress who needs a big strong man to save her. I'm sure Mr. Rooke is not ACTUALLY an attention seeking hypocrite and he'll join me in denouncing Nintendo's sexist flagship franchise. Surely if he can boycott a niche game, he has the bravery and integrity to boycott Nintendo here at the ONM.

  203. Hueahueahuea Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 02:44

    Articles like this are damaging the industry - here's how to stop it.
    STOP treating women like they can't handle games like this.
    Women are not the dependent children you make them out to be. I am a big girl, and I don't need you to try and speak for me. If men can handle super buff and burly men in videogames, I can handle a woman in a two piece swimsuit.
    STOP trying to get men to not be... men.
    I am a woman, and I enjoy seeing attractive men. It's just how I am. Most men like seeing attractive women, too, and that doesn't make them bad people. And if it does, then I guess I'm a bad person too. (PS: I loved that part in Twilight Princess where Link was almost completely naked)
    STOP trivializing feminism using articles like this!
    I know you're greedy and want ad revenue, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't destroy our existence as women. We don't need a pig like you setting us back by multiple decades. People are going to think that articles like this are what feminism is all about, and then we'll no longer have any meaningful progress.

  204. imfromv Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 03:15

    >Look at the role of women in gaming, for example. They're almost always portrayed as busty, slim, attractive people - an almost impossible feat in real life.
    So basically women are jealous of the figures animated characters?
    >It's an incredibly damaging portrayal of the "stereotypical" women, and may explain why fewer women are interested in playing games or working in the gaming industry.
    Video games don't change the portrayal of anything we witness every day in our lives. f**k this is retarded.
    >heaping more pressure upon young women to conform to this stereotypical trend of "attractiveness", as can be seen in films or TV shows. To have another form of entertainment supporting those images alone is thoroughly disappointing.
    People want to see people who are attractive, nobody, or nothing is pressuring you to look like anyone else.

    You're on /v/ buddy boy

  205. Yuutuu Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 04:12

    Didn't know about this one. Looked up some videos and it looks like a great game, I'll probably purchase it sometime this week.

  206. LewiiG Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 04:12


    It's not my intention to offend anyone, but if there's anything damaging the industry, it's not Senran Kagura Burst — it's the people who are so close-minded that they wish to suck the fun out of videogames for people whose tastes are different to theirs.
    ???????????

    ??????????! ??????
    ?????????????????? :wink:

    I've got nothing left to refute this laughable article with unless someone says something stupid again, but I just wanted to say how much I liked and lolled at your post xD

  207. oneofakind_055 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 04:58

    Let's see. No discussion about how the game plays, shows no video on how the game plays, and no commentary about how the game is also quite heavy on the plot. Great job. This was totally unbiased piece of writing.

    There are sections of the story mode for both of the two routes that looks deeper into characters, their past, and why they fight on the different sight of the good/evil spectrum. One example: One of the girls had a dad who was cheating on his wife, had several underhand and illegal operations as a doctor, and a mother who only saw her as a mere doll to dress up. In the end, said girl tried to kill her parents by burning her house to the ground. She was stopped by her future teacher. Another girl was the subject of ridiculous amount of bullying, another one was kicked out of her own home, and another was poor and forced to live out on the streets. And don't look up on any videos? Forget that.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGddzli-Gl8
    45 minutes of the game.

    And as an added bonus. Stuff from Shinovi Versus, the version of the game that was released after Burst in Japan for the Vita...Oh, and it also pumped that glorious offensive idea of objectifying even further.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS6ycpmycJE
    (Opening)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsO2NbQsFRo
    (Trailer)

    (Supers)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJOg3sty9Ns
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOQBbxkp2e0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfVtuRh9HAQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cytZemN8eCI

  208. Maxz Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 05:38

    This game is stupid.

  209. Jon Dunn Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 06:12

    LOL this the worst article ever. If there's anything damaging to the game industry is how people spread doom about games that other people enjoy that you DO NOT have to play. Never mind the fact that game portrays the females as strong and independent characters. Or the well written story. Or the comedy. Nevermind the solid gameplay, even for a game in the beat em up genre.

    All of that goes to waste because you're offended my OPTIONAL CLOTHING and such that you do not have to wear? Short skirts? They wear traditional Japanese uniforms. You know, what most of Japan schoolgirls are wearing. Bikinis? The game doesn't make you wear them, it's optional.

    But feel free to continue spread lies and bs about a solid game because you're scared that females with big breast (Not all the girls in the game are big chested btw) is destroying the industry lmao

  210. Victator Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 07:13

    I fail to see how attractive women with unrealistic proportions (seriously, no one has eyes that big! And where is her nose? And why is her chin so pointy) in an unrealistic art style is "damaging" to women Mr. Rooke.

    The idea that these are somehow damaging rolemodels for little girls fails on its face because precisely ZERO of the games you mentioned were intended for little girls (Dead or Alive, the one which you seem most fixated on, is rated M, which means no chain retailer will sell it to a minor without parental approval). The problem with unhealthily skinny models is that fashion magazines and their ilk ARE aimed at girls and women primarily and feature what appear to be real women.

    The 45% statistic Mr. Rooke claims only occurred after a MAJOR shift in the criteria (it added mobile games, which vastlyh skews the stats and ceases to provide useful information). Before that change, the actual numbers were much lower (not insignificant, but lower). Even if we DID take it as valid, Mr. Rooke seems to claim a game should not target a niche, and that a company should not make what a dedicated group of buyers WILL buy, and that it must make ONLY something that will appeal to "everyone", regardless of how completely impossible that is. Almost nothing has a 50/50 male/female demographic, and for the few things that do, the demographics of the male audience and the female audience are quite different in age, occupation ect.


    I find it extremely unlikely that any female gamer is going to be drawn in by the proliferation of breasts throughout the game and it's accompanying art

    GIRLS CAN'T LOVE GIRLS! Nevermind that the remaining girls may just be plain old apathetic to the art choice: most art choices aren't big turn ons or turn offs to people. (The only games I've avoided strictly on art style are ones that hurt my eyes like Human Revolution, and I've never played a game strictly on the art style.)

    The game can also appeal to women in other areas even if that was true. SKB is surprisingly story heavy, where each girl has a distinct personality and character development.

    The characters all wear short skirts or just underwear, with low cut blouses - clothes that are not known for keeping out the cold.


    Firstly, no character wears "just underwear" in Burst, while only 2 (Yumi and Hikage) wear anything close to a "low cut blouse". Secondly, the game indicates it takes place in the summer, or possibly spring, and definitely does not take place in the winter: Beaches are crowded, everyone wears a summer uniform, outdoor sports are played, lakes are liquid and trees have foliage, none of which are characteristic of winter and most would exclude fall too. No one cares about "keeping out the cold" in the middle of summer in a country as far south as Nihon.

    Clearly, women can only be super effective when exposing as much skin as possible


    Have you played the game Mr. Rooke? Clothing damage gives no advantage whatsoever, and in-fact causes the damage a character takes to increase (and in all but the longest missions, indicates you took too much damage to get a good rank for it).

    When was the last time you saw a fully-clothed male character have to strip down to his tighty-whiteys in order to deal a devastating blow to an enemy?

    When I played Ar Tonelico 3 Mr. Rooke.

    And yet, in the last couple of years we've had Dead or Alive Dimensions, Code of Princess, and now this

    Kinu Nishimura, the artist for CoP, is a woman. I think she understands women more than you do Mr. Rooke.

    but can still acknowledge that this form of entertainment is foul.

    Actually Mr. Rooke, complaining about women being showing off their bodies is NOT aligned with classic feminism, which has long held the view that a women is allowed to be sexy if she wants to. Being attractive does not make a woman inferior to men.

    Man I love you! I really am tired of all these wanna be white knights. If you don't like a game don't buy it. Don't try to push your propaganda on people.

    What Mr. Rooke is doing is plain WRONG. Using your position as reviewer to push your political views/beliefs. Disgusting.
    I am for male/female equity and believe it or not all sorts of games exist in japan. Even those with naked boys. Yes yes. There will always be a game for a target demographic. The idea of making all the games fit a *mold* that you people deem appropriate is nothing short of pure dictatorship. I will keep supporting these games on pure principle that people like you need to go down.

  211. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 07:37


    It's not my intention to offend anyone, but if there's anything damaging the industry, it's not Senran Kagura Burst — it's the people who are so close-minded that they wish to suck the fun out of videogames for people whose tastes are different to theirs.
    ???????????

    ??????????! ??????
    ?????????????????? :wink:

    I've got nothing left to refute this laughable article with unless someone says something stupid again, but I just wanted to say how much I liked and lolled at your post xD


    ??????????????????^^

  212. DaleBiederbeck Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 08:10

    I'm going to be honest, if someone makes a game with chesty women, I don't have a problem with it. Believe it or not, some women really do have large busts. Shocking, I know. Anyway, I just don't see a problem with a female character simply having large breasts. In fact, I thought it was stupid when the new Lara Croft was revealed with a small chest (hear me out), because according to the developer, they wanted Lara "to be taken seriously." So apparently a woman can't be taken seriously if she's busty...well that seems pretty sexist right there...

    HOWEVER, I completely agree with this stance on games like Senran Kagura. Again, I don't so much have a problem with character designs, but the moment developers start going out of their way to make these characters sexual objects because of their looks it becomes a problem. Big breasts aren't a problem on their own, but developers so frequently go out of their way to make sure said breasts are needlessly popping out of clothing as much as possible is. The convenient camera angles, the underwear shots, the way these characters always act so weak and submissive, those are the problems.

    There's no reason why a character can't have a womanly body and still be a strong character. After all, Jessica Rabbit wasn't bad, she was just drawn that way. Unfortunately, there are very few Jessica Rabbits in video games.

  213. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 08:21

    I'm going to be honest, if someone makes a game with chesty women, I don't have a problem with it. Believe it or not, some women really do have large busts. Shocking, I know. Anyway, I just don't see a problem with a female character simply having large breasts. In fact, I thought it was stupid when the new Lara Croft was revealed with a small chest (hear me out), because according to the developer, they wanted Lara "to be taken seriously." So apparently a woman can't be taken seriously if she's busty...well that seems pretty sexist right there...

    HOWEVER, I completely agree with this stance on games like Senran Kagura. Again, I don't so much have a problem with character designs, but the moment developers start going out of their way to make these characters sexual objects because of their looks it becomes a problem. Big breasts aren't a problem on their own, but developers so frequently go out of their way to make sure said breasts are needlessly popping out of clothing as much as possible is. The convenient camera angles, the underwear shots, the way these characters always act so weak and submissive, those are the problems.

    There's no reason why a character can't have a womanly body and still be a strong character. After all, Jessica Rabbit wasn't bad, she was just drawn that way. Unfortunately, there are very few Jessica Rabbits in video games.

    Sorry, but if you don't like games like this, just don't play them! Let those who want to play them have their fun. You are right that there are far too few games with strong female characters, and we do need more of them. However, there's nothing stopping the games that you want and games with sexualised female characters from coexisting. As long as there's a balance between the two and equilibrium is attained, I don't see a problem.

  214. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 09:02

    First of all, this article is pure clickbait - and it's working (yes, I took the bait as well - I just can't sit still when I see crap like this). Secondly, this is probably THE worst thing coming out from ONM I've ever seen - and I've been following them from now and then since 1997. And third, what's REALLY damaging to the industry are feminists who wants to control people's imagination and creativity - instead of accepting the market consists of many different kind of games.

    I find it interesting that Chris seriously think that fictional characters are to be compared with real life people in terms of ideals. Do girls and women really compare themselves to Homura, Asuka or Mirai? Do they get depresses when they don't have the same "perfect" body as Katsuragi? Is this some kind of joke? "May explain", Chris writes. That is PURE speculation and only meant to feed his weak arguments. There's absolutely no evidence of this. Even before videogames and arcade games had characters, in the 70s, mostly men and boys were interested in them. Women simply aren't as interested, and when they do play, most of them play games which are free from killing, competing and instead are about talking or other social aspects.

    This kind of reminds me of the movie Avatar. After the premiere, some people actually complained of depression because they compared themselves too much with the fantastic and beautiful characters in the movie. That's laughable. If you can't differentiate yourself clearly from fictional characters, whether they look real or not, then it's YOU who has a big problem. Don't ever try to blame that on a game or a movie which you are not forced to play/see.

    Senran Kagura Burst is a game made by men for men. If you don't like it, you don't have to play it. But Chris tells everyone that this game damages the industry, and that everyone shoudl boycott it. Funny thing is, crazy articales like these tend to result in the exact opposite - people always get irritated when someone tries to control what kind of entertainment they're allowed to consume, and this often results in bigger sales. For this I would actually like to thank Chris for a job well done. :-) Also, someone clearly hasn't played Muscle March, or seen those visual novels from Japan which focuses entiryely on attractive young men.

    Let's be clear about this, Chris. There's always justification for entertainment with fictional characters. I see nothing wrong with objectification either, it has always existed and will always exist. Men love sexy bodies, and no amount of feminism is going to change that. Luckily, we live in a good world where you are allowed to create the body of your dreams as a fictional sex object if you want to, without any feminist/communist telling you you can't sell this product because it doesn't have the "right" ideals. Is that the society you want, Chris? Only products which passes feminist approval should be allowed on the market?

    About the ESA report that 45 % of gamers are women, it's not really valid and here's why: They asked if you played games. They didn't ask how much you played or how much money you invest in games. Let me eleborate this a little further so it becomes clear why that report isn't valid as an argument for this.

    I play a lot of games, and I spend a lot ff money of them - most of my money goes to games. If I answered a question if I play games, then I would have said "yes".

    Now, my sister also play games, but she doesn't play as much as I do, not even close. She also doesn't spend any money at all on games, she play games that are free or sometimes, games that I have bought. She's not nearly as interested in gaming as I am, and she practically doesn't spend any money at all on them. If she answered the question in that report, she would have said "yes". She does play games.

    The problem is, the report is not detailed enough to give a fair picture of the situation. According to this report, me and my sister are both gamers. That's simply not true, and that why those 45 % can't be taken seriously. Many women may play games, but their interest in games are generally a lot lower than men's, and they do not spend as much money on games as men do.

    And frankly, I've seen many girls who play and enjoy games with sexy women. Not everyone has such low self esteem they blame games and their "impossible ideals" for their own overweight or bad looks. Just the same way I know some male characters from Fire Emblem: Awakening have "impossibly" good looking bodies. Actually, when I see them, they kind of work as motivation for me to train harder and eat less crap.

    Also, do you know why the industy is dominated by males? It's because males are more interested generally in programming and games. If women wants to apply to programming or game development educations, NOTHING is in their way to do so. Nothing. But you know what? They choose not to, because they have other, stronger interests.

    Chris's blog is the typical feminist propaganda crap that we see every month in Sweden. If anything, it's stereotyping the people who plays Senran Kagura (like me) to "hormonal, sweaty teenage boys". I'm 30 years old, work and BTW - I don't look down on teenage boys at all. I thought you didn't like stereotypes, Chris? Yet you use them when they suit your purpose.

    I'm going to order the limited edition of Senran Kagura Burst (yes, it's coming, and Zen United will announce details of it before the end of January). I already have the Japanese game, but I'm going to double dip for two reasons: I like the game very much with all its fan service, and the industry needs more games like this in times when the market pretty much consists of FPS, sports and Hollywood storytelling games. I welcome ALL kinds of games (I love everything from Monster Hunter and Resident Evil to Pokémon and Mario Kart), but I can't stand journalists who uses their profession as a power platform to control people's minds about what's right and wrong.

    Modern feminism has a few things in common with old days communism, and it's scary to see how people accept the extreme feminism ideals (this is right, everything else is wrong) without questioning it.

  215. laughingjumpman Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 09:26


    I hope that's not what you think I'm doing. I've had an account here for a while and just recently started posting in the past week or so, but saw this thread and took part. Unless I'm mistaken and you're referring to others, in which case, my mistake.

    Nah, don't worry, I was jokingly blaming you for making me comment more here than I wanted to. But the other part was aimed at someone else, as there was a post having a go at me that was by someone who had one post, one kudos, so it looked as if they'd made an account just to have a pop, which made me chuckle.

    I get what you're saying with streetfighter, but again it's not - to my eyes anyway - presented in quite the way Kagura is. I suppose there's some practicality too it in that case too, it's exaggerated sure, but it makes sense for someone that's a hardened street fighter to be physically fit, but then that's probably just getting pedantic when it's a game where people lob fireballs at each other.

    Anyway, will probably leave it there, at the end of the day I don't personally feel that strongly about SK itself either way. I just like to play devils advocate for the issue the article raises because it seems so many (not aiming this at you at all, you're reasonable, which sadly puts you in a minority!) are very quick to shout it down in a way that seems as if they're unwilling to even acknowledge that some might have a problem with something they like. They don't even want to admit there may be a problem. It's okay to crticise games for more than just their entertainment value and still like games, and a lot of people seem to struggle with that - and it gives the hobby a bad image.

    Case in point: I've said what I have and already someone has branded me with the good ol' 'casual gamer' line, and suggested I only play CoD. Classic, that old chestnut.

    In their mind, apparently, I have criticised a game and therefore I'm not a 'proper' gamer. It says a lot about the mentality of some 'gamers' I think.

  216. MatthewONM Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 09:31

    First of all, this article is pure clickbait - and it's working (yes, I took the bait as well - I just can't sit still when I see crap like this). Secondly, this is probably THE worst thing coming out from ONM I've ever seen - and I've been following them from now and then since 1997.


    Once more with feeling: this was an opinion piece written by one of our community bloggers. It does not reflect the opinion of Official Nintendo Magazine, as much as any one of these forum posts doesn't reflect the opinion of ONM.

  217. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 09:41

    Once more with feeling: this was an opinion piece written by one of our community bloggers. It does not reflect the opinion of Official Nintendo Magazine, as much as any one of these forum posts doesn't reflect the opinion of ONM.

    I see. Maybe that should be pointed out more clearly?

    What status does a community blogger have? Obviously he has access to posting stuff in your articles section, which can be easily mixed up with real ONM articles.

  218. MatthewONM Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 09:47

    Once more with feeling: this was an opinion piece written by one of our community bloggers. It does not reflect the opinion of Official Nintendo Magazine, as much as any one of these forum posts doesn't reflect the opinion of ONM.

    I see. Maybe that should be pointed out more clearly?

    What status does a community blogger have? Obviously he has access to posting stuff in your articles section, which can be easily mixed up with real ONM articles.


    We've had ONM bloggers for several years and their opinions have never been muddled with ONM's before. We always mark them up as 'ONM Blogger X says....'. If it has a member of the team's name on it, only then is it coming directly from the magazine. We've never had this confusion before, presumably because previous blogs haven't stirred up quite the same passion of debate.

  219. DaleBiederbeck Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 09:52

    I'm going to be honest, if someone makes a game with chesty women, I don't have a problem with it. Believe it or not, some women really do have large busts. Shocking, I know. Anyway, I just don't see a problem with a female character simply having large breasts. In fact, I thought it was stupid when the new Lara Croft was revealed with a small chest (hear me out), because according to the developer, they wanted Lara "to be taken seriously." So apparently a woman can't be taken seriously if she's busty...well that seems pretty sexist right there...

    HOWEVER, I completely agree with this stance on games like Senran Kagura. Again, I don't so much have a problem with character designs, but the moment developers start going out of their way to make these characters sexual objects because of their looks it becomes a problem. Big breasts aren't a problem on their own, but developers so frequently go out of their way to make sure said breasts are needlessly popping out of clothing as much as possible is. The convenient camera angles, the underwear shots, the way these characters always act so weak and submissive, those are the problems.

    There's no reason why a character can't have a womanly body and still be a strong character. After all, Jessica Rabbit wasn't bad, she was just drawn that way. Unfortunately, there are very few Jessica Rabbits in video games.

    Sorry, but if you don't like games like this, just don't play them! Let those who want to play them have their fun. You are right that there are far too few games with strong female characters, and we do need more of them. However, there's nothing stopping the games that you want and games with sexualised female characters from coexisting. As long as there's a balance between the two and equilibrium is attained, I don't see a problem.


    I won't be playing this game. But what exactly does it say for the industry when so many of these kinds of games are made? Let's face it, these games are tailor-made for perverts. It's not something that deserves indulgence. A little sexuality here and there is fine. But stuff like this really is pretty insulting and pathetic.

  220. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 09:53

    I'm not going to say that ONM is wrong for publishing this article. Freedom of expression is important (and something the blogger seems to forget). However, from an editorial standpoint, it seems a little one-sided. If it were up to me, I'd have ensured multiple standpoints were being expressed before publishing something on such a controversial subject. I can let ONM off the hook if it's just a one-off, though. I'm still annoyed, though…

  221. Maxz Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 09:58

    People seem really fired up about this not being a good article. Impassioned, even. It's funny - I once wrote an article about how almonds don't taste much like marzipan. I'm pretty sure it wasn't very good either, but nobody seemed all that fired about about quite how not very good it was. Given the backlash against this article, you'd think that it's statements cut to the very core of peoples most cherished ideals, insulting their very reason for existence... I don't think ONM's seen such a head turning piece in a long time - not even when Super Mario 3D World didn't get 110%.

    Still, isn't it odd that almonds don't taste much like marzipan? Or does nobody care about that?

  222. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 10:02

    I won't be playing this game. But what exactly does it say for the industry when so many of these kinds of games are made? Let's face it, these games are tailor-made for perverts. It's not something that deserves indulgence. A little sexuality here and there is fine. But stuff like this really is pretty insulting and pathetic.

    Are you going to say the same about violence? A little violence here and there is fine, but stuff like CoD, MadWorld and GTA is pretty insulting and pathetic. If not, why?

    Some people are always calling other people perverts for enjoying sex appeal in games - and really, I don't understand why. What's your problem? When did it become wrong to like sexy female bodies "too much"?

  223. laughingjumpman Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 10:04

    People seem really fired up about this not being a good article. Impassioned, even. It's funny - I once wrote an article about how almonds don't taste much like marzipan. I'm pretty sure it wasn't very good either, but nobody seemed all that fired about about quite how not very good it was. Given the backlash against this article, you'd think that it's statements cut to the very core of peoples most cherished ideals, insulting their very reason for existence... I don't think ONM's seen such a head turning piece in a long time - not even when Super Mario 3D World didn't get 110%.

    Still, isn't it odd that almonds don't taste much like marzipan? Or does nobody care about that?

    What?! They do a bit, how dare you say otherwise! It's disgusting that you could suggest such a thing when you clearly haven't eaten ALL the marzipan and almonds! You're clearly not a real marzipan connoisseur! This is just rampant Almondism point scoring. You're just furthering the Marzipaninazi cause!

    Take that Mr. Maxz.

  224. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 10:06

    Sorry, but if you don't like games like this, just don't play them! Let those who want to play them have their fun. You are right that there are far too few games with strong female characters, and we do need more of them. However, there's nothing stopping the games that you want and games with sexualised female characters from coexisting. As long as there's a balance between the two and equilibrium is attained, I don't see a problem.


    I won't be playing this game. But what exactly does it say for the industry when so many of these kinds of games are made? Let's face it, these games are tailor-made for perverts. It's not something that deserves indulgence. A little sexuality here and there is fine. But stuff like this really is pretty insulting and pathetic.


    Yes, these games are indeed tailor-made for perverts. Quite honestly though, I've worked on games that are far more sexualised than this that Senran Kagura's content is rather trivial in comparison. Even so, do perverts have any less of a right to enjoy games than anyone else? I don't think so.

    As I said, it's totally fine for you not to like these games. But honestly, wanting them to go away seems somewhat selfish. There's a sort of "I don't like it so you can't have it" attitude to that line of arguing. Instead, how about focusing your attention on getting more games with strong female characters made. We both agree there aren't enough of them, and if more are made, the proportion of games like Senran Kagura will decrease. And I'd be in full favour of that. :-)

  225. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 10:12

    People seem really fired up about this not being a good article. Impassioned, even. It's funny - I once wrote an article about how almonds don't taste much like marzipan. I'm pretty sure it wasn't very good either, but nobody seemed all that fired about about quite how not very good it was. Given the backlash against this article, you'd think that it's statements cut to the very core of peoples most cherished ideals, insulting their very reason for existence... I don't think ONM's seen such a head turning piece in a long time - not even when Super Mario 3D World didn't get 110%.

    Still, isn't it odd that almonds don't taste much like marzipan? Or does nobody care about that?

    It does cut to the very core of people's most cherished ideals by telling them "this fantasy/imagination is OK, but this isn't - because I say so. Buy this game and you're a low level human being." Not Chris's exact words, but that's his message. If he wanted to express what ideals he believes in, he should've choosen his words much more carefully and not sounding like "this is wrong, and if you don't agree, you're wrong". His choice of words makes him sound like a communist in the making, and people usually react very strongly when their freedom of speech is threatened.

    This article could've been written in a lot less forceful way. This is the reaction you get when you try to force your own ideals upon people.

  226. hkk_sh Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 10:51

    I'm a woman. Heterosexual woman. And yeah, I'm offended. Do you know why? Nope, it's not because OMG OMG HALF NAKED WOMAN IN MAH VIDYA GAMES!!1 SUCH SEXISM! VERY ANGER! No. I'm interested in Senran Kagura a lot, actually. I'm going to preorder it soon. I like attractive and fun characters, even if they have giant boobs! It's a videogame, after all! They're supposed to be fun! Why should I be offended?
    I'm offended because you tell me that I should be offended by . It's actually a lot more sexist than SK and DoA even if you take them together! "You know... like... woman don't like seeing... this kind of stuff...they don't really like boobs...or such...I don't really know." I'm sick of you.
    I also find it really pointless to attack niche japanese games, you know. It's not like Senran Kagura is a GOTY contender. If you don't like it, don't buy/play it. That's all.

    not a native speaker, first time posting here. sorry for possible mistakes

  227. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 11:23

    Welcome to the forums, hkk_sh! Yup, you're exactly right. Generalising women by saying they should be offended is nothing short of being sexist. People like the blogger need to think long and hard about what women actually want before they start defending them.

  228. Cribster Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 11:38

    Oh dearie dearie me… Where do I even begin? Seriously, I don't know. I've had to rewrite this comment numerous times just because I didn't even know what to say in response to such a ridiculous article. Guess I'll crack out the ol' Q&A format, since those tend to work well. To help me with it, I've got some random crazy person who seems to actually agree with the article here to ask the questions. Okay, let's start.

    Hi Yirba! I hear you're really annoyed about this article. But quite frankly, you're completely wrong about it!
    No no, my crazy friend. You're the one who's wrong. Let's start with your main argument. You claim that the game objectifies women, right?

    Yes. This is a very bad game because it treats women as mere objects.
    Well, I think we can both agree that the game sexualises the characters in the game, but can you really say that it objectifies women in general? After all, the game doesn't have arms that reach out of the screen and molests women, does it?

    Oh. No it doesn't. Silly me for confusing characters in a game with human beings in real life.

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 0 ? 1 <<<

    But hang on, women won't like these games. They'll feel objectified by them!
    Hold it! I'll concede that some women would feel like that. But you can't say that every woman is like that. That's called generalisation, and it's sexist.

    Noooooo! I'm a filthy sexist! I thought I was trying to be a feminist, but I suppose I've lost track somewhere… :-(
    Don't worry, my good friend, just don't do it again.

    But hang on, are there really any women who wouldn't feel objectified by this game?
    Indeed there are! In fact, from my experience working in the games industry, I've met many women who love playing games like this.

    Wow, I never knew!

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 1 ? 2 <<<

    Wait a second. Why would women even play a game like this? The female characters are heavily sexualised! And women are supposed to like men, right?
    Wrong! Believe it or not, there are actually a lot of women who are sexually attracted to other women, you homophobe!

    OMG! Is that really true?! (O_O)

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 2 ? 4 <<<

    …Also, the game isn't just about being sexy. It also has some pretty fun gameplay, too. So even heterosexual or asexual women can enjoy that. (I'll save arguing against the gender binary and other such matters for another day.)

    Incredible… I never realised that a game's gameplay can be an appealing factor!

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 4 ? 8 <<<

    Tell me this, though: There aren't any games that sexualise men, so surely that's got to be sexist?
    Assuming your claim to be true…

    ???
    Assuming your claim to be true, it is indeed sexist.

    So you agree! In that case, we need to get rid of this sort of game. Because sexism is bad, don't you agree?
    I do agree that sexism is bad. Believe it or not, I'm actually a strong proponent of gender equality. But isn't there a better way to counter this sexism?

    I don't think so… These games are sexist. Therefore they need to be got rid of.
    Not so fast. In fact, these games aren't sexist at all. It's society that is sexist. Getting rid of these games wouldn't be fun for the people who enjoy them. And they have every right to enjoy them. It's called freedom of expression.

    But if there is sexism, something needs to be done about it.
    I agree. But don't you think there's another way to solve the problem than to get rid of these games?

    I can't think of any… Please enlighten me!
    Okay, so we've determined that things are out-of-balance on the gender equality side of things. It's a bit like a scale. If scales are out-of-balance, there are two things you can do to bring them back into balance again. First, there's your way, which is to take stuff out of the heavier end of the scale. …But there's actually another method. You can put things into the lighter end!

    Eureka! I think I'm starting to get it!
    Good. So instead of getting rid of games with sexualised women, we need more games with sexualised men!

    Brilliant idea. You really are a genius, Yirba!
    Thank you.

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 8 ? 16 <<<

    But how can we accomplish this?
    Good news. You had it wrong all along. There are already games that sexualise men! I'm going to teach you about two genres of game. First is the otome game. These are games primarily intended for women, and they focus on romantic and sexual interactions with men.

    I never knew…

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 16 ? 32 <<<

    Also, there are games called boys' love games or yaoi games. You remember how I said there are women who are sexually attracted to other women? Well, the same is true with men! There are men who like men!

    Really?! You know so much, Yirba…
    Not much more than the average intelligent human being. So anyway, these boys' love games involve male characters who have romantic/sexual experiences with other men!

    Wow…

    >>> Random Crazy Person's IQ increased! LV 32 ? 64 <<<

    But why haven't I seen any of these games?
    Well, they're actually quite a niche and mostly limited to the Japanese market. And this goes back to what I was saying about society being sexist. We need to stop blaming games, and blame ourselves for the problems we have. We need to increase diversity in the genres of game that are available by encouraging games that sexualise characters of all gender identities. We need to make the whole world a bit more ero, one step at a time. Because sexy games can be fun for anyone. And everyone who wants to play sexy games should have the opportunity to do so. And for anyone who doesn't like sexy games, that's fine, too! You don't have to play them. Just allow those of us who do want to play them to do so.

    Such wise words…

    And there we have it. I think that about covers everything. Random Crazy Person's brain now has eight bytes worth of capacity, and I hope your IQ has levelled up, too!

    I realise I've been a little bit blunt with this comment, and it hasn't been worded anywhere near to my usual standards of writing, but this is a topic I feel very strongly about, and I felt it was important to let me thoughts known. And I'd be happy to respond to any questions or comments directed at me, regardless of how you feel. Because communication is important. :-)

    It's not my intention to offend anyone, but if there's anything damaging the industry, it's not Senran Kagura Burst — it's the people who are so close-minded that they wish to suck the fun out of videogames for people whose tastes are different to theirs.

    ???????????


    Why do you give so much of a

    I think I literally contracted cancer from your god awful post

  229. Maxz Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 11:56

    Having actually read a bit of the backlash, there is a little I'd like to throw into the raging mass of idealogical slurry.

    Firstly, "the writer hasn't even mentioned the plot, the game mechanics, the music, or any other feature of the game: it's biased" - I feel this is rather a moot point; it's like saying, "Yes, the Prime Minister IS fundamentally and incorrigibly racist, but... he's doing great job of fixing the economy, and is an excellent golfer. Have you considered that?". The issue taken by the author is that this game is unarguably "fundamentally incorrigibly sexist", and that is enough - line drawn. Sexism is just as much of an evil as racism, and no other list of 'virtues' can justify its existence; just as no list of 'other qualities' would make it acceptable for a Prime Minister to be fundamentally and incorrigibly racist.

    Secondly, "I know way more sexist/gratuitous/perverted games than this" - There may be many more racist/bigoted/warped people in the world than our fictional Prime Minister, but that realisation doesn't suddenly mean the Prime Minister becomes utterly justified in his being fundamentally and incorrigibly racist. No matter how far the scale stretches, the limits of acceptability remain fixed. Again, it is argued that those limits have been crossed, and enough is enough.

    The author could have saved himself some time, and offered up less bait (200 and something comments-worth of it) if he'd just written, "this game is clearly fundamentally and incorrigibly sexist, and this is unacceptable". That's the nub of it, and it leaves the disgruntled masses without the satisfaction of 'knocking someone of their shining white horse', then deluding themselves they've made a valid point as a result.

    However, the article does feel like it's being spoken from atop a shining saddle. The idea that 'humans people are equal, regardless of gender' hardly needs explaining, and the word 'feminist' is brandished with all the controversy that always follows it (Joss Whedon did a rather nice talk on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDmzlKHuuoI). It's also probably generated more attention in the game than would have otherwise been, and given that 'enjoying staring at writhing schoolgirls' isn't the kind of thing you can 'preach out of people', a lot of that attention may turn into actual purchases of the game. Something the article seemed set on stopping.

    The article is undoubtably written in a patronising, preachy, demanding manner (to either gender, or any other of division of humanity) that draws more attention to the writer himself than the point he is making, but there is a point there; this is (at least to my knowledge) the most gratuitously, pathetically, unashamedly sexist piece of work released in the West for the 3DS to date. And that is not something worth celebrating. Buy it, sell it, have it on toast for breakfast - whatever - there is still something sad about the fact that a game based around bashing the clothes of schoolgirls is now a part of the Western mainstream market.

    EDIT: It's also worth noting that as a result of the article, the game's front cover is now plastered all over the website...

  230. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 12:05

    although, if you believe this sort of thing is wrong and you think women should be treated equally to men - congratulations, you're a feminist, welcome to the club!) but can still acknowledge that this form of entertainment is foul.

    I really don't understand what this has to do with fiction in games...? I would be very careful calling - especially if I publish official blogs - a certain kind of entertainment "wrong" or "foul". Who are you to judge other people's thoughts, fantasies and imaginations? Because that's what you're doing here.

    A game could be about raping children or beating old women to death - it's still just fiction and not reailty. People who like such games won't go out IRL and rape a child or beating an old woman to death, unless the person in question had lost all sense of reality. You can't completely control what's on people's minds, even if journalists are known to want to do that.

    The girls' ages in Senran Kagura Burst have been removed to the American and European versions (luckily the only censorship this game suffered), but in the Japanese version, it says clearly that their ages range from 15-18. So yes, they're making 15 year old girls into sex objects, and I have no problems with that - because it's all fiction and made up characters. When you're trying to label certain kinds of fiction as "right" or "wrong", then you're basically toying with the idea of controlling what people should be allowed to THINK about. I certainly don't want to live in such a society. Such ideal belongs communism.

    Senran Kagura is one of the worst types of game around. It's insulting to the intelligence of gamers, damaging to the reputation of the industry, and alienating and harmful to women (both inside and outside the gaming community and industry).

    Exactly how is it insulting to my intelligence? And exactly how is it HARMFUL to women OUTSIDE of the gaming community?! Feminists like Chris is the reason why so many non-extreme feminists have to take a lot of crap for their way of living.

    Try to accept different ideals, and not just the feminism ideal. Let people live life the way they want and enjoy the entertainment and games they want. If you're going to write about your beliefs, fine, but don't write it in such a way that is a dirty attack on people who don't share your values.

  231. Slayso Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 12:22

    So yes, they're making 15 year old girls into sex objects, and I have no problems with that...

    Wow. I've seen a lot of stupidity on this forum over the years, but... wow.

  232. chazrinelli Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 12:24

    Because a fat, ugly, old woman is going to make me want to buy a game.

  233. Cribster Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 12:25

    A game could be about raping children or beating old women to death - it's still just fiction and not reailty.

    my fave bit personally

  234. pokemaniac 212 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 12:26

    So yes, they're making 15 year old girls into sex objects, and I have no problems with that...

    Wow. I've seen a lot of stupidity on this forum over the years, but... wow.

    The worst part was, that wasn't even the most idiotic part of the post, which surely goes to

    A game could be about raping children or beating old women to death - it's still just fiction and not reailty

    Because hardcore paedophilia is always acceptable so long as it isn't real.

  235. Slayso Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 12:29

    The worst part was, that wasn't even the most idiotic part of the post, which surely goes to

    A game could be about raping children or beating old women to death - it's still just fiction and not reailty

    Because hardcore paedophilia is always acceptable so long as it isn't real.

    I stopped reading. It's beyond idiocy, bordering on an area of the human psyche I never want to encounter.

  236. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 12:32

    So yes, they're making 15 year old girls into sex objects, and I have no problems with that...

    Wow. I've seen a lot of stupidity on this forum over the years, but... wow.

    Do you understand what I'm saying? Just because you find some fiction repulsing doesn't mean that fiction is bad. YOU think it's bad, not everyone. That's the important difference. It doesn't harm anyone, maybe except people who refuse to accept that there are people who like things that they think are disgusting themselves.

    Accept it or not, people love to do things in fiction that they aren't allowed to do in reality. Whether it's about killing innocent people in GTA or drooling over a 15 year old girl in Senran Kagura - it has no connection with what you do in real life. NONE.

    Because hardcore paedophilia is always acceptable so long as it isn't real.

    It should be, just like any other imagination or fantasy. You can't control people's minds. Many women fantasize about being raped (there are studies on that, look it up), does that mean they want to be raped IRL? Of course not! When you imagine something, or think about something, does that necessarily mean you want to do it for real? No!

    I'm just trying to make you understand that fiction=/=IRL, and if you like to look at a 15 year old cartoon character, it doesn't mean that you appreciate real girls that age in the same way. I'm using extreme examples to make you understand. You can't control people's imagination, no matter how dirty or disgusting you think it is.

  237. Rustle_is_Olev Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 12:40

    You have a lot of nerve. Thinking you can speak on behalf of women, going so far as to put the feminist label on your utterly terrible, radical opinion. You do not support equality. You support sensationalism and divisiveness. Lord's bones, that comment about beauty, "almost impossible'... argh. You and your ilk do nothing but damage to those that support true equality. This is a videogame. It and many other things fall under the blanket of entertainment media. A large portion of which is fiction. The sane and civil world can distinguish between it and reality. Y'know, that place where good people are fighting to make sure women are payed as much as their male coworkers. Which is hilariously still a problem. But no, let's focus on this work of fiction. Your drivel is sickening. I hope that it has at least turned more people onto the existence of this gem, after they're finished laughing. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a new vidya to purchase, and busty schoolgirls to enjoy, while I try to make sure the real world is a bit more equal without focusing on something that is fictitious and has no bearing upon it.

  238. waltermelonz Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 12:43

    Pretty disappointed that ONM are going down the social justice clickbait route.

    Is there anywhere left for reading gaming news without having an agenda pushed down your throat?

  239. Maxz Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 13:14

    Many women fantasize about being raped (there are studies on that, look it up)

    ...There's been a lot of flack thrown at the original poster for claiming to speak 'on behalf on women' (which of course, no one person can do, woman or not), but I think as far as attempts go, this is a new low. And possibly not an appropriate direction of discussion for general ONM readership.

  240. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 13:25

    Many women fantasize about being raped (there are studies on that, look it up)

    ...There's been a lot of flack thrown at the original poster for claiming to speak 'on behalf on women' (which of course, no one person can do, woman or not), but I think as far as attempts go, this is a new low. And possibly not an appropriate direction of discussion for general ONM readership.

    I'm not "speaking on behalf of women", I was simply giving an example of why fiction and reality are two COMPLETELY different things. Fiction, no matter how disgusting you think it is, doesn't harm ANYONE. Therefore, all kinds of fiction should be allowed and accepted.

    There are lots of things I find disgusting, but I don't think they should be unaccepted just because I find them tasteless. What's accepted or not should be based if it's actually harmful to people, not if it is disgusting or inappropriate.

    There are probably some people who'll find Senran Kagura Burst disgusting because it turns 15, 16, 17 and 18 year old school girls into sex objects. Still, the game does no harm to anyone, and no one forces you to play it.

  241. Wrathy Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 13:28

    What about the teenagers who're objectified by middle aged men as a result of media like this? Saying that none of them are harmed is just about as ludicrous as your uncited claim that women fantasise about being sexually assaulted.

    The disconnect between fiction and reality that you people seem to think exists is disturbing on a genuinely unprecedented level.

  242. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 13:36

    What about the teenagers who're objectified by middle aged men as a result of media like this? Saying that none of them are harmed is just about as ludicrous as your uncited claim that women fantasise about being sexually assaulted.

    The disconnect between fiction and reality that you people seem to think exists is disturbing on a genuinely unprecedented level.

    I fail to see how it harms teenagers if a random man in some country objectifies them - they won't notice it in any way. There's absolutely no proof what-so-ever that fictional teenage sex objects results in more REAL rapes or sexual offenses.

    Well, as for my claim, here you go:

    http://www.care2.com/causes/rape-ranked ... women.html

    Some more:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-raj- ... 11322.html

    I don't blame people for their fantasies or imaginations, but I do blame them for their actions.

  243. Wrathy Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 14:11

    Social science making broad claims about an entire gender is probably bad social science. There are any number of flaws in a survey like that:

    1) It could be anomalous. It's the only one of potentially dozens, hundreds or thousands to get that result. People can pick and choose the ones which support their arguments, without actively proving anything.
    2) There's no way of possibly getting a representative sample size for a population as big as... half the population. This means that the set of people who respond could all have an unrepresentative opinion (e.g. 90% of them happen to support extermination of spiders, but this doesn't mean 90% of everyone wants to exterminate spiders)
    3) Laboratory conditions are impossible to achieve since every single subject has been socialised, educated and treated differently. What one person considers 'rape' won't necessarily be another person's understanding of it, for example.
    4) The biases of the people taking the survey will bias it from the off. Their way of writing the questions influences the results in subtle ways that have huge impacts.
    5) You only get any answers from the people who participate and complete it. They don't even boast a 100% success rate from the people they contact about it.

    I could go on, but I'll leave it there. Using a sample of a few dozen-hundred and blowing up the results to apply to tens of millions of people is just a bad idea.

  244. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 14:19

    Social science making broad claims about an entire gender is probably bad social science. There are any number of flaws in a survey like that:

    1) It could be anomalous. It's the only one of potentially dozens, hundreds or thousands to get that result. People can pick and choose the ones which support their arguments, without actively proving anything.
    2) There's no way of possibly getting a representative sample size for a population as big as... half the population. This means that the set of people who respond could all have an unrepresentative opinion (e.g. 90% of them happen to support extermination of spiders, but this doesn't mean 90% of everyone wants to exterminate spiders)
    3) Laboratory conditions are impossible to achieve since every single subject has been socialised, educated and treated differently. What one person considers 'rape' won't necessarily be another person's understanding of it, for example.
    4) The biases of the people taking the survey will bias it from the off. Their way of writing the questions influences the results in subtle ways that have huge impacts.
    5) You only get any answers from the people who participate and complete it. They don't even boast a 100% success rate from the people they contact about it.

    I could go on, but I'll leave it there. Using a sample of a few dozen-hundred and blowing up the results to apply to tens of millions of people is just a bad idea.

    Well, I presented studies (note my edit to my last post, there was another link too) and you just choose to ignore them. I think the second link I edited in is more serious than the first one, that was why I edited it.

    I think it's your turn to present a study which proves that people who like CoD and GTA goes out IRL and kill people because it's so fun to do in the game. It's your turn to present a study which proves that people who enjoy 15 year old fictional sex objects go out IRL and rape school girls, or that these games harm real teenage girls.

    Please present these studies now... because you're not merely guessing and assuming, are you?

  245. ProtoRobo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 14:26

    Alright, I have to say I love how many people will go out of their way to defend video games and say they're a 'new form of art!' And these same people will defend Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto, and say that video game violence doesn't actually influence people, yet have one busty girl in a video game, and everyone just loses their minds! We have to censor this, it'll turn all men into crazy objectifying misogynists! It's literally killing video games!

    That isn't how it works. If you think video games are an art, you recognize they are a form of expression, and the artists (Or developer in this case) is allowed to create whatever they please. You are by no means required to partake in it, or purchase it, but you defend its right to exist. It doesn't matter what it is, whether it's something you approve of or don't, you recognize that art can be whatever the artist wants to make.

    However, if you think Video Games do influence people, and negatively impact them, then you should support banning them. Stuff of Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto is raising a generation of killers, Pokemon is raising a generation of Satanic Animal Abusers, and so on and so forth.

    So which is it people? You can't say it's both, you can't say stuff you like is allowed to exist, but not stuff you don't like, to stuff that offends you, that isn't how this works. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's like what South Park said, either everything is OK, or nothing is. It can't be both. Either Video Games are art and don't impact reality, and can be whatever they want as no one has the right to censor art, or Video Games do influence us, and should be banned so no one does anything stupid. Choose one and only one.

    What about the teenagers who're objectified by middle aged men as a result of media like this? Saying that none of them are harmed is just about as ludicrous as your uncited claim that women fantasise about being sexually assaulted.

    The disconnect between fiction and reality that you people seem to think exists is disturbing on a genuinely unprecedented level.

    What on Earth are you talking about? First, you're assuming that only Middle Aged Men play this game. I'm sure my female friends who enjoy this game would be quite offended by that. Secondly, you're assuming that people can't separate reality and fiction, and that anyone who plays this is instantly going to 'objectify' teenagers. Heck, please tell me how these people are going to objectify teenagers. Are they gonna kidnap a bunch of them, and lock them in their basement, and trade them with friends? If so I'd believe they might have had some issues before they played this game.

    Quite honestly, the fact you think there is a strong connection between fiction and reality scares me.

  246. LewiiG Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 14:30

    What about the teenagers who're objectified by middle aged men as a result of media like this? Saying that none of them are harmed is just about as ludicrous as your uncited claim that women fantasise about being sexually assaulted.

    As a result? How many actual people do you think that after playing this game will adopt such a view on REAL teenage girls? Your issue really is with Japan's morals, you realize that right? It's the country with all these games, the country where teenage girls are objectified or desired much more than here - in media and real life. But Japan is just like that. Women have all these games about men too, and I am confident that most men or women in Japan have no huge problem with games like this and see it as normal. Whether or not that games (and anime, manga etc) like this being normal in Japan is a problem, is for them to decide, and evidently, I don't think most see any wrong in general. Not even thought about. Likely because it is fiction. From a western point of view this means that Japan is highly sexist and perverted probably (don't generalize). And when you see one game like this leak into the uptight west, you think that it's a universal "problem." It's not a "problem" here; I don't think one game has the power to make us all have this mindset. So if you want to stop these games go over there. Good luck changing them. You'd probably be shocked if you actually knew what Japan is like in this regard.

    The disconnect between fiction and reality that you people seem to think exists is disturbing on a genuinely unprecedented level.


    It hardly exists. I've always been told when I was younger that "it's not real" or "it's just acting don't worry" etc. I have disconnected fantasy and reality. They do not influence my expectations or mix in any way. I thought most "mature" people realized this? Only children without much experience of life are influenced by things they see, as what is normal to them is what they see growing up.

  247. laughingjumpman Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 14:35

    When it comes to the whole 'games are art' thing, I think when you say games can be artistic, it's not the same as saying that all games are artistic. Like with films, you could argue some films have artistic merit, and actively try to, while others don't, and don't aim for such a description.

  248. omega pit 626 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 14:38

    I liked the part where Wrathy got owned.

  249. ProtoRobo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 14:40

    When it comes to the whole 'games are art' thing, I think when you say games can be artistic, it's not the same as saying that all games are artistic. Like with films, you could argue some films have artistic merit, and actively try to, while others don't, and don't aim for such a description.

    Whether something is 'artsy' or not is irrelevant, as it's subjective. What I consider good art will probably be different from what you consider good art. Whether a game is made for artistic expression, or just a quick cash in, it's art regardless. A 5 Year old's doodle of his family is just as much art as the Mona Lissa. Is it as good, or as important? That's debatable. It might be bad art, but it's still art, and still deserves the same rights regardless.

  250. Metr01d Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 14:43

    Alright, I have to say I love how many people will go out of their way to defend video games and say they're a 'new form of art!' And these same people will defend Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto, and say that video game violence doesn't actually influence people, yet have one busty girl in a video game, and everyone just loses their minds! We have to censor this, it'll turn all men into crazy objectifying misogynists! It's literally killing video games!

    That isn't how it works. If you think video games are an art, you recognize they are a form of expression, and the artists (Or developer in this case) is allowed to create whatever they please. You are by no means required to partake in it, or purchase it, but you defend its right to exist. It doesn't matter what it is, whether it's something you approve of or don't, you recognize that art can be whatever the artist wants to make.

    However, if you think Video Games do influence people, and negatively impact them, then you should support banning them. Stuff of Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto is raising a generation of killers, Pokemon is raising a generation of Satanic Animal Abusers, and so on and so forth.

    So which is it people? You can't say it's both, you can't say stuff you like is allowed to exist, but not stuff you don't like, to stuff that offends you, that isn't how this works. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's like what South Park said, either everything is OK, or nothing is. It can't be both. Either Video Games are art and don't impact reality, and can be whatever they want as no one has the right to censor art, or Video Games do influence us, and should be banned so no one does anything stupid. Choose one and only one.

    What about the teenagers who're objectified by middle aged men as a result of media like this? Saying that none of them are harmed is just about as ludicrous as your uncited claim that women fantasise about being sexually assaulted.

    The disconnect between fiction and reality that you people seem to think exists is disturbing on a genuinely unprecedented level.

    What on Earth are you talking about? First, you're assuming that only Middle Aged Men play this game. I'm sure my female friends who enjoy this game would be quite offended by that. Secondly, you're assuming that people can't separate reality and fiction, and that anyone who plays this is instantly going to 'objectify' teenagers. Heck, please tell me how these people are going to objectify teenagers. Are they gonna kidnap a bunch of them, and lock them in their basement, and trade them with friends? If so I'd believe they might have had some issues before they played this game.

    Quite honestly, the fact you think there is a strong connection between fiction and reality scares me.

    Just jumping in to say I love this post and fully agree with it.

    Games like these don't detract from other female characters: FemShep isn't less of a leader because of it, Samus (pre-'Other M') isn't less of a badass etc.

    I support the rise in well written female characters, but guess what: We can totally have both.

  251. laughingjumpman Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 14:48

    Without wanting to go around in circles, that's the thing, what is and what isn't art is subjective too - my definition is clearly a bit more narrow than yours, for instance. As in, I wouldn't class any bit of media as art by default, regardless of quality/merit in the same.

  252. Wrathy Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 14:48

    Social science making broad claims about an entire gender is probably bad social science. There are any number of flaws in a survey like that:

    1) It could be anomalous. It's the only one of potentially dozens, hundreds or thousands to get that result. People can pick and choose the ones which support their arguments, without actively proving anything.
    2) There's no way of possibly getting a representative sample size for a population as big as... half the population. This means that the set of people who respond could all have an unrepresentative opinion (e.g. 90% of them happen to support extermination of spiders, but this doesn't mean 90% of everyone wants to exterminate spiders)
    3) Laboratory conditions are impossible to achieve since every single subject has been socialised, educated and treated differently. What one person considers 'rape' won't necessarily be another person's understanding of it, for example.
    4) The biases of the people taking the survey will bias it from the off. Their way of writing the questions influences the results in subtle ways that have huge impacts.
    5) You only get any answers from the people who participate and complete it. They don't even boast a 100% success rate from the people they contact about it.

    I could go on, but I'll leave it there. Using a sample of a few dozen-hundred and blowing up the results to apply to tens of millions of people is just a bad idea.

    Well, I presented studies (note my edit to my last post, there was another link too) and you just choose to ignore them. I think the second link I edited in is more serious than the first one, that was why I edited it.

    I think it's your turn to present a study which proves that people who like CoD and GTA goes out IRL and kill people because it's so fun to do in the game. It's your turn to present a study which proves that people who enjoy 15 year old fictional sex objects go out IRL and rape school girls, or that these games harm real teenage girls.

    Please present these studies now... because you're not merely guessing and assuming, are you?

    And I ~literally~ just posted about the problems of studies. The five listed items are all problems which studies suffer from. Qualifying things empirically in such a manner is not possible. That was my entire point.

    That isn't how it works. If you think video games are an art, you recognize they are a form of expression, and the artists (Or developer in this case) is allowed to create whatever they please. You are by no means required to partake in it, or purchase it, but you defend its right to exist. It doesn't matter what it is, whether it's something you approve of or don't, you recognize that art can be whatever the artist wants to make.

    There is a liberal case for banning material which can be proven to limit the freedom of speech of people, when it causes more harm to them than existing than it would cause harm to people by banning it.

    But, as I've literally just said, proving that is incredibly difficult. If I was just advocating a ban for this game because it offends me, you might have some sort of argument. However, I've not advocated a ban for it. I've just criticised it. These are two separate things entirely.

    What on Earth are you talking about? First, you're assuming that only Middle Aged Men play this game. I'm sure my female friends who enjoy this game would be quite offended by that. Secondly, you're assuming that people can't separate reality and fiction, and that anyone who plays this is instantly going to 'objectify' teenagers. Heck, please tell me how these people are going to objectify teenagers. Are they gonna kidnap a bunch of them, and lock them in their basement, and trade them with friends? If so I'd believe they might have had some issues before they played this game.

    It was an example. It was not me stating a universal truth.

    Quite honestly, the fact you think there is a strong connection between fiction and reality scares me.

    Fiction is influenced by people who write it in reality. Reality is influenced by fiction, as people consume and react to it. These are codependents and denying their relationship is absurd.

    As a result? How many actual people do you think that after playing this game will adopt such a view on REAL teenage girls? Your issue really is with Japan's morals, you realize that right? It's the country with all these games, the country where teenage girls are objectified or desired much more than here - in media and real life. But Japan is just like that. Women have all these games about men too, and I am confident that most men or women in Japan have no huge problem with games like this and see it as normal. Whether or not that games (and anime, manga etc) like this being normal in Japan is a problem, is for them to decide, and evidently, I don't think most see any wrong in general. Not even thought about. Likely because it is fiction. From a western point of view this means that Japan is highly sexist and perverted probably (don't generalize). And when you see one game like this leak into the uptight west, you think that it's a universal "problem." It's not a "problem" here; I don't think one game has the power to make us all have this mindset. So if you want to stop these games go over there. Good luck changing them. You'd probably be shocked if you actually knew what Japan is like in this regard.

    I don't know. I haven't argued any solid connection. But yes, I do realise the wider problems of Japan's culture, and Western idolisation of it. Saying, well, it's just like that and that's how it is and there's nothing we can do about it is not a valid point. If I thought there was nothing I can do about it today, I wouldn't be posting messages on an internet noticeboard to people who also live in the West. Oh...

  253. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 14:59


    Why do you give so much of a

    I think I literally contracted cancer from your god awful post


    I am gomen. Still, isn't it important to stand up for the sort of games you want to play? As for why I "give so much of a ", maybe the fact that I work on games far worse than Senran Kagura has something to do with it? It almost feels as though the blogger is attacking me personally.

  254. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 15:01

    And I ~literally~ just posted about the problems of studies. The five listed items are all problems which studies suffer from. Qualifying things empirically in such a manner is not possible. That was my entire point.

    Well, I think those are some valid points you bring up. You should be careful with studies. However, these studies (and others) was the only way for me to prove my point, especially as a certain someone said my claims lacked back-up. I backed them up, and you're still complaining? :-)

    Fiction is influenced by people who write it in reality. Reality is influenced by fiction, as people consume and react to it. These are codependents and denying their relationship is absurd.

    While that is true, it still doesn't mean that a normal adult can't differentiate fiction from reality. There's a reason we have age restrictions and agee ratings. Children don't have the same ability to differ between fiction and reality as adults do. That's why CoD is rated 16 or 18, and that's why Senran Kagura Burst is rated 16.

    I, for example, enjoy lolicon manga like Kodomo no Jikan. But it's so different because it doesn't use real people, it's all a story that is confined to that comic. When I stop reading, I return to reality. And that's how all adults do, except adults with psychological issues.

    I don't enjoy sexual images of small children and adults together, not even in fiction. But I also know that those images does no harm to anyone, so why try to control what other people find enjoyable? Do we want our society to stop stuff that is actually harmful, or stop stuff that some people find offensive?

  255. LewiiG Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 15:08


    I don't know. I haven't argued any solid connection. But yes, I do realise the wider problems of Japan's culture, and Western idolisation of it. Saying, well, it's just like that and that's how it is and there's nothing we can do about it is not a valid point. If I thought there was nothing I can do about it today, I wouldn't be posting messages on an internet noticeboard to people who also live in the West. Oh...


    I never said you couldn't do anything about it. You can by all means try, as you have. Japan does have more sexual offences, often involving the touching of young women or other perverted things too numerous to mention. I just don't think that these kind of games are the reason for it. For them to have been created in the first place, the mentality must have existed beforehand. It is just the country, like I said. They do obviously make efforts to stop such crimes and offenses as much as any other country would, and of course we would all love to see none of these things happen in the real world, in any country. I just think the virtual world is totally unrelated. Games and media for me are ways of expressing what cannot be expressed within the limitations of the living. The world would be going backwards by limiting what people can express.

  256. yellow fellow993 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 15:15

    http://i.imgur.com/U4FuNRH.png

    Wrathy is destroying all of you

  257. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 15:22

    *sigh* Look, playing Senran Kagura isn't going to turn you into a paedophile. The game doesn't emit electromagnetic waves from the screen that messes with your mind and makes you go out and start raping people. This is in just the same way that playing Call of Duty doesn't make you whip out a gun and go on a killing spree.

    If there is any correlation whatsoever between the two, it's because those people were already paedophiles in the first place, and it probably makes sense for a paedophile to want to play games that involve youthful characters.

    That doesn't mean the rest of us can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy, though.

  258. trooper92 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 15:24

    Which game character has the biggest set of chebs?

  259. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 15:30

    Which game character has the biggest set of chebs?


    Apparently Haruka, with a bra size of 39I.

    Edit: Whoops, I think I misinterpreted the question. Thought you were referring to just Senran Kagura characters. I don't know the answer to your actual question.

  260. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 15:45

    Which game character has the biggest set of chebs?


    Apparently Haruka, with a bra size of 39I.

    Edit: Whoops, I think I misinterpreted the question. Thought you were referring to just Senran Kagura characters. I don't know the answer to your actual question.

    This is what one magazine did in Japan at the time of the release for the original (not Burst):

    http://storage.siliconera.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/074075_kagura.jpg

    Arranged by bust size. :-P

    And here's the full resolution version:

    http://storage.siliconera.com/wordpress ... kagura.jpg

  261. ProtoRobo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 15:47

    Without wanting to go around in circles, that's the thing, what is and what isn't art is subjective too - my definition is clearly a bit more narrow than yours, for instance. As in, I wouldn't class any bit of media as art by default, regardless of quality/merit in the same.

    But when we start classifying only certain parts of a media as art, then Freedom of Speech becomes inhibited. There would be nothing stopping someone from banning stuff they don't like simply because they don't consider it art. Sure, many people would be excited to see Justin Bieber Music officially declared 'Not Art', but I'm sure many would take strong offense when Mega Man was later declared 'Not Art'. It's either all or nothing.

    That isn't how it works. If you think video games are an art, you recognize they are a form of expression, and the artists (Or developer in this case) is allowed to create whatever they please. You are by no means required to partake in it, or purchase it, but you defend its right to exist. It doesn't matter what it is, whether it's something you approve of or don't, you recognize that art can be whatever the artist wants to make.

    There is a liberal case for banning material which can be proven to limit the freedom of speech of people, when it causes more harm to them than existing than it would cause harm to people by banning it.

    That sounds very Orwellian, and I as well as many others would strongly object to the idea of having material banned 'for my protection'. I think many adults are, well, adult enough to not be harmed by fictional media.

    But, as I've literally just said, proving that is incredibly difficult. If I was just advocating a ban for this game because it offends me, you might have some sort of argument. However, I've not advocated a ban for it. I've just criticised it. These are two separate things entirely.

    Well it wasn't entirely directed to you, so much as the author of this article as well as supporters of the idea of censoring this kind of material. Granted, I don't see the appeal of criticizing a niche Japanese game that's obviously going to appeal to a very small audience for the very thing that it's audience would be interested in, while simultaneously ignoring the rest of the game, but to each their own I suppose.

    What on Earth are you talking about? First, you're assuming that only Middle Aged Men play this game. I'm sure my female friends who enjoy this game would be quite offended by that. Secondly, you're assuming that people can't separate reality and fiction, and that anyone who plays this is instantly going to 'objectify' teenagers. Heck, please tell me how these people are going to objectify teenagers. Are they gonna kidnap a bunch of them, and lock them in their basement, and trade them with friends? If so I'd believe they might have had some issues before they played this game.

    It was an example. It was not me stating a universal truth.

    Ok. An example of what? All you stated was Middle Aged Men objectifying Teenagers. In fact, what does 'objectifying' even mean? It's a pretty vague term these days. It used to refer to how Generals would see their soldiers are a mere measure of power, as opposed to men, or how slave owners viewed their slaves as possessions, as opposed to people. Nowadays the word just feels like a random buzzword. It would really help me understand what you were saying if you used a more specific word, because objectifying just doesn't tell me, or many people, anything these days, other than 'bad'.

    Quite honestly, the fact you think there is a strong connection between fiction and reality scares me.

    Fiction is influenced by people who write it in reality. Reality is influenced by fiction, as people consume and react to it. These are codependents and denying their relationship is absurd.

    Being INSPIRED by fiction doesn't mean you blindly follow it, or you morals are changed by it. People are able to easily understand the divide between fiction and reality, and understand what's acceptable in one isn't in the other. Likewise, people who make fiction may be inspired by reality, but that doesn't mean that a person who writes a novel about a solider going to war would be completely OK with killing, war, or anything. A person who writes about morally incorrect things in fiction does not endorse acting out said immoral acts in real life.

  262. hkk_sh Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 15:48

    Just one more thought I'd like to share. I just really can't see how Senran Kagura is sexist. Its cast consists of females only (as far as I know). Only females. And they kick ass. They are represented as strong figures! It's like calling Kill La Kill sexist just because there's fanservice here and there. Or calling Scott Pilgrim vs. The World homophobic only because it had gay character in it. Or... jeez.
    Also, isn't Mario series sexist? It shows Peach as a helpless and useless doll who gets stolen all the time. Just kidding

  263. samus_killer Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 15:53

    Just one more thought I'd like to share. I just really can't see how Senran Kagura is sexist. Its cast consists of females only (as far as I know). Only females. And they kick ass. They are represented as strong figures! It's like calling Kill La Kill sexist just because there's fanservice here and there. Or calling Scott Pilgrim vs. The World homophobic only because it had gay character in it. Or... jeez.
    Also, isn't Mario series sexist? It shows Peach as a helpless and useless doll who gets stolen all the time. Just kidding


    Please stop.

  264. ProtoRobo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 15:58

    Just one more thought I'd like to share. I just really can't see how Senran Kagura is sexist. Its cast consists of females only (as far as I know). Only females. And they kick ass. They are represented as strong figures! It's like calling Kill La Kill sexist just because there's fanservice here and there. Or calling Scott Pilgrim vs. The World homophobic only because it had gay character in it. Or... jeez.
    Also, isn't Mario series sexist? It shows Peach as a helpless and useless doll who gets stolen all the time. Just kidding


    Please stop.

    Wow, I applaud you for your opinion. You sure presented facts and explained your viewpoint and reasoning well, and I can safely say I, as well as many others, have seen the light. You have won this debate, future generations will be in awe over how you contributed greatly to this discussion!

  265. laughingjumpman Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:01


    But when we start classifying only certain parts of a media as art, then Freedom of Speech becomes inhibited. There would be nothing stopping someone from banning stuff they don't like simply because they don't consider it art. Sure, many people would be excited to see Justin Bieber Music officially declared 'Not Art', but I'm sure many would take strong offense when Mega Man was later declared 'Not Art'. It's either all or nothing.

    Wait, that's a hell of a jump. When did I suggest that something should be banned if it's not art? It's got nothing to do with freedom of speech. I don't know where you get the idea that things have to be art or they're not allowed to exist.

    It's not like there's a special law in place than bans any form of expression if it's not 'officially' considered art. As I said, it's just a subjective label in itself.

  266. trooper92 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:03

    This is what one magazine did in Japan at the time of the release for the original (not Burst):

    http://storage.siliconera.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/074075_kagura.jpg

    Arranged by bust size. :-P

    And here's the full resolution version:

    http://storage.siliconera.com/wordpress ... kagura.jpg

    I think it might be one of the lovelies from Dead or Alive. Not Pete Burns though.

  267. andymck07 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:04

    Let me just give my opinion I...

    Before you want to pull the "gaming is misogynist" line, please find me a single video game that encourages you do violence against women the way that video games do violence against men? Oh that's right, violence against men doesn't count.

    Nah, the really annoying ones (which are sadly the most vocal) do nothing but drive people AWAY from actual feminism and hurt the pursuit of equality. Nuts who claim EVERYTHING hurts women, everything is rape imagery ect means that no one will pay attention when something actually IS a problem.

    I am HIGHLY offended by you stating that, because I find certain traits beautiful and my gender, I will go on a mass raping & murder spree of anyone and everyone who has those traits.

    If you don't like ecchi, you don't watch ecchi.
    If you don't like violence, you don't consume violent media.
    If you don't like this and that, you don't consume this and that.

    So basically, "stop liking what I don't like", good thing the relevant developers realized that you're nothing but a vocal minority and the 45% number comes from candy crush and farmville.

    I've had enough of feminists making everything "controversial" or "implied rape"

    "They're almost always portrayed as busty, slim, attractive people - an almost impossible feat in real life"

    If you're standard for video games is that they feature no one doing impossible feats, you might as well just ban all video games.


    Not so fast. In fact, these games aren't sexist at all. It's society that is sexist. Getting rid of these games wouldn't be fun for the people who enjoy them. And they have every right to enjoy them. It's called freedom of expression.

    So yes, they're making 15 year old girls into sex objects, and I have no problems with that...

    http://i.imgur.com/0WHGKhB.gif


    ...never mind.

  268. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:13

    Let me just give my opinion I...

    So yes, they're making 15 year old girls into sex objects, and I have no problems with that...

    http://i.imgur.com/0WHGKhB.gif


    ...never mind.

    Maybe you should try to understand the meaning behind these words, instead of focusing on getting shocked by how outrageous they may sound.

    I have no problems with 15 year old sex objects, as long as they're just fictional. They don't harm anyone.

  269. ProtoRobo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:13

    Wait, that's a hell of a jump. When did I suggest that something should be banned if it's not art? It's got nothing to do with freedom of speech. I don't know where you get the idea that things have to be art or they're not allowed to exist.

    It's not like there's a special law in place than bans any form of expression if it's not 'officially' considered art. As I said, it's just a subjective label in itself.

    Well generally when things get labeled as 'Art', they get all the protection that comes with the title. That's why it was a big victory for Video Games when the US recognized them as art. It means it gets all the fancy protection that comes with the title. While to most people, it's trivial if something is recognized as art, on a legal level it does have an impact, and is important. It's why in the US Kinder Eggs are banned, but not Call of Duty. Call of Duty is art as seen by the US Government, Kinder Eggs aren't.

    Let me just give my opinion I...

    ...never mind.

    Well if you didn't plan on giving your opinion, why did you bother posting? If you have an opposing opinion and care about it, then post. If you don't really care, then don't post. It doesn't further the discussion any if you just say you have an opinion but don't want to explain it or defend it.

  270. jdofthefunk Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:15

    So, has everyone agreed that this is a videogame which can in no way be compared to real life problems yet? Do we understand that this article has actually attracted more people into buying the game? Can we all stop thinking that Senran (which is no where near as sexual as other japanese games/anime/everything) will alienate the non-existent consumers who this game wasn't meant to appeal to anyway?
    The fact that this page has received so much attention (when compared to announcements for big games like Pokemon and 3D World) is astounding, mainly because it has gone further than what the original article criticises: now we have members arguing about racism and equality, all real life issues that are in no way being caused by videogames.

  271. pokemaniac 212 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:15


    I, for example, enjoy lolicon manga like Kodomo no Jikan. But it's so different because it doesn't use real people, it's all a story that is confined to that comic. When I stop reading, I return to reality. And that's how all adults do, except adults with psychological issues.

    I don't have time for a lengthy post, but I feel I should warn you that viewing of lolicon is illegal under uk law and carries a 3 year prison term and a place on the sex-offenders register, so best not advertise an interest in it.

  272. andymck07 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:17

    I have no problems with 15 year old sex objects, as long as they're just fictional. They don't harm anyone.

    http://i.imgur.com/l9zKYHF.gif

  273. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:21


    I, for example, enjoy lolicon manga like Kodomo no Jikan. But it's so different because it doesn't use real people, it's all a story that is confined to that comic. When I stop reading, I return to reality. And that's how all adults do, except adults with psychological issues.

    I don't have time for a lengthy post, but I feel I should warn you that viewing of lolicon is illegal under uk law and carries a 3 year prison term and a place on the sex-offenders register, so best not advertise an interest in it.

    Good thing then I live in Sweden and not the UK (if what you says is true, has anyone actually been found guilty and put into jail for this in the UK?). :-)

    FYI, in Sweden we had a famous case 2012 where a manga translator was accused for possesion of child porn because he had drawn images on his computer, depicting children having sex with adults. Luckily, the Swedish Supreme Court freed him of all charges, so these kind of pictures are perfectly legal in Sweden as long as they don't look realistic - which manga images don't.

    The Supreme Court argued that freedom of speech is more important than the non-existant protection real children would receive from a ban of these kind of images.

  274. ProtoRobo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:23

    I have no problems with 15 year old sex objects, as long as they're just fictional. They don't harm anyone.

    http://i.imgur.com/l9zKYHF.gif

    I love sassy gifs as much as the next person (And by which I mean I don't care much for them) but it would really help both your side and other people understand your viewpoint if you could at least put into words what your opinion is, or why you disagree with it. I mean, if I just replied to your post with

    http://i.imgur.com/p3gC98p.gif

    Well that wouldn't really explain much about my opinion, would it?

  275. yoshi-cute Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:25
  276. samus_killer Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:25

    Please stop.

    Wow, I applaud you for your opinion. You sure presented facts and explained your viewpoint and reasoning well, and I can safely say I, as well as many others, have seen the light. You have won this debate, future generations will be in awe over how you contributed greatly to this discussion!


    I've already given my opinion on the subject, like 8 pages back now.

    But well done on not being an arse about it.

  277. laughingjumpman Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:26

    I hope Chris Rooke is having a good old laugh at all this, really. You've got to laugh, otherwise you'd cry.

  278. Balladeer Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:28

    I'm alternating between the two. :lol: :cry:

  279. evilpinkdragon Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:35

    I'm just losing the will to live haha...
    It's like one of those awful, awful things you just can't help but watch through your fingers as it crashes and burns ;~;

  280. ProtoRobo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:42

    I've already given my opinion on the subject, like 8 pages back now.

    But well done on not being an arse about it.


    Well if you had given your opinion already, why'd you feel the need to tell someone else who was giving their opinion to stop, without giving them any sort of reasoning? If you disagree with someone's opinion, you should engage in proper discourse with them as opposed to telling them to shut up.

    We call this 'Being an adult'.

  281. samus_killer Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:51

    Because this discussion is beyond the point of reasoning. If you genuinely feel that there was nothing wrong with that post I'd quoted then I feel sorry for you.

  282. ProtoRobo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 16:56

    Because this discussion is beyond the point of reasoning. If you genuinely feel that there was nothing wrong with that post I'd quoted then I feel sorry for you.


    So what you're basically saying is that you don't want to explain your position or reasoning, but you do want to tell other people to shut up, not face consequences, and feel like you're in the moral high ground and anyone who questions you is pathetic?

    Ok, thanks for clearing that up you valiant knight in shining white armor!

  283. LFF Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 17:02

    I think it's more that it's not worth putting points across when this thread is so bloody immature and hostile towards the individuals making points for the other side of the argument, as exemplified by your actual post.

  284. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 17:05

    Let's take a look at how they do in Japan.

    Here's the event when they announced Senran Kagura 2 (yes, a sequel is coming, at least to Japan!) among other Senran Kagura games:

    http://www.animate.tv/news/visual/2014/1389150199_1_4_3cfc33a4a9d89e98a0b326ec7a1a7c65.jpg

    Series producer Takaki in black here:
    http://www.animate.tv/news/visual/2014/1389150199_1_1_eb1beedcb0dd1c12476b64a56ffa3ecd.jpg

    http://www.animate.tv/news/visual/2014/1389150199_1_20_5eb512e7733c04baf467f9bd7693d75d.jpg

    Some random stuff:

    http://cooterie.com/img/works/e65625eeb13fa7675adaabe4961da3272622ce89.jpg

    https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1385978_352317251571215_1831601483_n.jpg

    https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/996731_301772146625726_680356680_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1234913_347849122018028_1758789769_n.jpg

    And last by not least, Takaki's immortal quote:

    http://i.imgur.com/dcatyrM.jpg

  285. sciqueen Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 17:08

    The boys going on about their 'freedom of speech' being taken away from feminists and accusing people of 'not having a sense of humour' have obviously been rejected by women in the past and now take their bitterness out on everyone who is against the objectification of women. Seriously, your attitudes are the reason why no woman - or man - would ever be with you because you're being as unattractive to potential romantic partners as possible!

  286. ProtoRobo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 17:18

    I think it's more that it's not worth putting points across when this thread is so bloody immature and hostile towards the individuals making points for the other side of the argument, as exemplified by your actual post.


    Well if he wasn't interested in stating his opinion, and felt it wasn't worth the time, why bother posting at all? I mean, I know I'm the immature and hostile one here, even though he was the one who told someone else stating their opinion to stop, and later called me an arse for questioning that, I know I'm the big bad villain here. But if he didn't want people to question that, why bother posting in the first place? For blind praise? No reasonable discussion works like that.

    Let's take a look at how they do in Japan.

    Series producer Takaki in black here:
    http://www.animate.tv/news/visual/2014/1389150199_1_1_eb1beedcb0dd1c12476b64a56ffa3ecd.jpg

    http://www.animate.tv/news/visual/2014/1389150199_1_20_5eb512e7733c04baf467f9bd7693d75d.jpg


    I have to say, I envy how much fun that stream looked. Everyone in it seemed to have a fun time, I wish western game reveals were as exciting as that one was.

    The boys going on about their 'freedom of speech' being taken away from feminists and accusing people of 'not having a sense of humour' have obviously been rejected by women in the past and now take their bitterness out on everyone who is against the objectification of women. Seriously, your attitudes are the reason why no woman - or man - would ever be with you because you're being as unattractive to potential romantic partners as possible!


    I have to say, I find your post problematic. You consider many things. You're generalizing the opposition, claiming they are all men, ignoring any females, or non gender-binary individuals. You also imply that relationship status measures a person's worth, and also imply they can't love another that isn't male or female, or that they can't simply be asexual or aromantic.

    In short, your post is problematic, and you should consider checking your privilege because of this.

  287. Metr01d Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 17:21

    The boys going on about their 'freedom of speech' being taken away from feminists and accusing people of 'not having a sense of humour' have obviously been rejected by women in the past and now take their bitterness out on everyone who is against the objectification of women. Seriously, your attitudes are the reason why no woman - or man - would ever be with you because you're being as unattractive to potential romantic partners as possible!

    It's a good thing waifus don't judge, then.

  288. Jazzer94 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 18:10

    I have no problems with 15 year old sex objects, as long as they're just fictional. They don't harm anyone.


    Thats the first step to becoming this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iqG7IhWTWU its called becoming desensitized.

  289. ProtoRobo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 18:15

    I have no problems with 15 year old sex objects, as long as they're just fictional. They don't harm anyone.


    Thats the first step to becoming this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iqG7IhWTWU its called becoming desensitized.


    Geez, isn't that a bit of a leap? I think people are able to differentiate fiction from reality.

    But if we followed that logic, everyone should stop playing Pokemon. It doesn't matter if the fictional animals fighting are fictional, it's the first step to being desensitized to animal abuse. If you play Pokemon, you are just as bad as a person who abuses animals and breeds them to send off to fight to the death in real life.

    Hopefully you understand why the above logic is severely flawed.

  290. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 18:29

    I just asked my sister (she's 19) what she thought about this game. I showed her the box art, and described the game as "An action game where you choose one of ten girls to beat up enemies. If you take too much damage, their clothes rip and they're forced to fight in their underwear!"

    Her reaction?

    "Haha, what an epic game!"

    I also asked her if she would buy the game if the girls had more clothes, or if there were sexy male characters instead of sexy females.

    Her reply?

    "I don't think so."

    She's not interested in these kind of games, and for her, it doesn't matter if the characters are sexy females or not.

    Of course, this is just one person so it really doesn't say much, but sometimes I wonder who dislikes these games most: the male feminist or the women. Some journalists seem to be absolutely desperate to have videogames as serious and realistic as possible, because they don't want games to be as simple as pure entertainment anymore. That doesn't give games and its industry enough status.

  291. Rastamau5 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 18:32

    http://puu.sh/6t4mx.gif

  292. LewiiG Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 18:40

    I have no problems with 15 year old sex objects, as long as they're just fictional. They don't harm anyone.


    Thats the first step to becoming this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iqG7IhWTWU its called becoming desensitized.

    Fgs, another one who can't distinguish between reality and fiction. I have no problems with 15 year old sex objects, as long as they're just fictional. It's time to go outside and search for 15 year olds to perv on, certainly. That is what this game causes me to do. Certainly. Hmm yes quite.

    I don't even view the girls in Senran as sex objects. "Objects" that word displeases me greatly. They likely have more depth and interestingness than you'll ever realize. It doesn't desensitize anything in real life. It doesn't for people with intelligence anyway.

  293. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 18:49

    The boys going on about their 'freedom of speech' being taken away from feminists and accusing people of 'not having a sense of humour' have obviously been rejected by women in the past and now take their bitterness out on everyone who is against the objectification of women. Seriously, your attitudes are the reason why no woman - or man - would ever be with you because you're being as unattractive to potential romantic partners as possible!


    I'm going to assume that by "being taken away from feminists", you mean "being taken away by feminists"…

    Anyway, I don't see why anyone shouldn't stand up for their freedom of speech. Being able to do and say as you wish is an important human right and is a key aspect of our society. Trying to get rid of certain types of game is very much inhibiting other people's freedom of speech, and people have the right to protest against that. And so protest I shall.

    I'll have you know that I have a wonderful girlfriend, and we love each other very much. And I'm sure she completely agrees with me. After all, she's a big fan of games with sexualised female characters, and we often enjoy these games together.

    This is a matter of human rights, not enacting revenge. If there's anyone enacting revenge, it's people like the blogger who wishes to get rid of games simply because they don't like them.

  294. Cribster Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 18:52

    *sigh* Look, playing Senran Kagura isn't going to turn you into a paedophile. The game doesn't emit electromagnetic waves from the screen that messes with your mind and makes you go out and start raping people. This is in just the same way that playing Call of Duty doesn't make you whip out a gun and go on a killing spree.

    If there is any correlation whatsoever between the two, it's because those people were already paedophiles in the first place, and it probably makes sense for a paedophile to want to play games that involve youthful characters.

    That doesn't mean the rest of us can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy, though.


    Let's put it this way; what are your reasons for wanting to play this game as well as make others of it's ilk.

    Also if your answer did not include "sexual perversions which include paedophilia" then why this game over more socially acceptable alternatives?

  295. RobertK Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 18:58

    I have no problems with 15 year old sex objects, as long as they're just fictional. They don't harm anyone.

    Basically, from your posts, you're assuming that:

    A) All adults can separate between reality and fiction
    B) Kids are Generally worse at separating reality from fiction

    While, in general, kids certainly cannot differentiate between the two lines as well as adults, that is not to say that there aren't some who can differentiate entirely,
    Also, not ALL adults can differentiate like you seem to believe

    What I'm getting at is that your statement that "They don't harm anyone" is fundamentally wrong.
    There will be those, both adults and kids, that will be unable to differentiate between reality and fiction, and these images or works will have a profound effect on their actions.

    Out of the billions in the world at least one person is going to be affected by an image and it will hurt someone. What you are essentially advocating in an above post is paedophilia and I really think you should assess the things that you have written on here before you advocate other things that may be damaging.

  296. Jazzer94 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:01


    Fgs, another one who can't distinguish between reality and fiction. I have no problems with 15 year old sex objects, as long as they're just fictional. It's time to go outside and search for 15 year olds to perv on, certainly. That is what this game causes me to do. Certainly. Hmm yes quite.

    I don't even view the girls in Senran as sex objects. "Objects" that word displeases me greatly. They likely have more depth and interestingness than you'll ever realize. It doesn't desensitize anything in real life. It doesn't for people with intelligence anyway.

    Maybe I made an extreme comparisons but there is a fine line between making comments like that and eventually thinking and trying to act on them especially with young people who can be impressionable to say the least. I don't think the game is that terrible it is more so the comments some people have made.

  297. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:02

    *sigh* Look, playing Senran Kagura isn't going to turn you into a paedophile. The game doesn't emit electromagnetic waves from the screen that messes with your mind and makes you go out and start raping people. This is in just the same way that playing Call of Duty doesn't make you whip out a gun and go on a killing spree.

    If there is any correlation whatsoever between the two, it's because those people were already paedophiles in the first place, and it probably makes sense for a paedophile to want to play games that involve youthful characters.

    That doesn't mean the rest of us can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy, though.


    Let's put it this way; what are your reasons for wanting to play this game as well as make others of it's ilk.

    Also if your answer did not include "sexual perversions which include paedophilia" then why this game over more socially acceptable alternatives?


    I want to play this game because it looks like a fun beat-em-up that is significantly less risqué than the loli porn games that I usually work on for my job, which is nice for a change, but still contains pseudo-erotic elements which enhance the game's enjoyableness. Paedophilia has nothing to do with it.

  298. Cribster Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:11

    Sorry, do your morals not account for the fact that you work on paedophilic cartoon porn?

    EDIT: I did ask this in my previous post too, just wondering if you ignored it purposefully

  299. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:12

    I have no problems with 15 year old sex objects, as long as they're just fictional. They don't harm anyone.

    Basically, from your posts, you're assuming that:

    A) All adults can separate between reality and fiction
    B) Kids are Generally worse at separating reality from fiction

    While, in general, kids certainly cannot differentiate between the two lines as well as adults, that is not to say that there aren't some who can differentiate entirely,
    Also, not ALL adults can differentiate like you seem to believe

    What I'm getting at is that your statement that "They don't harm anyone" is fundamentally wrong.
    There will be those, both adults and kids, that will be unable to differentiate between reality and fiction, and these images or works will have a profound effect on their actions.

    Out of the billions in the world at least one person is going to be affected by an image and it will hurt someone. What you are essentially advocating in an above post is paedophilia and I really think you should assess the things that you have written on here before you advocate other things that may be damaging.

    Yes, kids may not be able to differentiate reality from fiction. That is why we have age classifications. This game is rated 16. Therefore there shouldn't be any kids playing it who can't differentiate reality from fiction.

    And sure, there are probably some adults who can't differentiate between the two. However, they are very much in the minority. Are you going to ban Call of Duty because there might be some people who think they're actually fighting a war and go out and murder people?

  300. laughingjumpman Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:13

    Wait, hang on - wasn't it mentioned earlier that loli porn was illegal in the UK?

  301. ProtoRobo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:21

    Basically, from your posts, you're assuming that:

    A) All adults can separate between reality and fiction
    B) Kids are Generally worse at separating reality from fiction

    While, in general, kids certainly cannot differentiate between the two lines as well as adults, that is not to say that there aren't some who can differentiate entirely,
    Also, not ALL adults can differentiate like you seem to believe

    What I'm getting at is that your statement that "They don't harm anyone" is fundamentally wrong.
    There will be those, both adults and kids, that will be unable to differentiate between reality and fiction, and these images or works will have a profound effect on their actions.

    Out of the billions in the world at least one person is going to be affected by an image and it will hurt someone. What you are essentially advocating in an above post is paedophilia and I really think you should assess the things that you have written on here before you advocate other things that may be damaging.


    Why are kids being brought up? This game is obviously not intended for children, and is rated Pegi 16. Even so, it's not our job nor society's to raise a kid, it's the parents. If a parent is exposing their child to material not intended for them, than that isn't the material's problem, that's the parent's problem.

    And what mentally sound adults are unable to distinguish reality and fiction? If you know an adult that can't, than I implore you to help them seek psychiatric help before they hurt themselves or others, because the ability to understand fiction and reality is very vital to life, and an adult who has trouble understanding that can be a risk to anyone around them, including their self. Not being able to understand fiction and reality is a very very major problem for an adult.

    And yeah, I would think, considering Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto are two of the most popular western video game series, played by millions in the world on a daily basis, if your logic was correct all these people would be going around shooting people, stealing cars, and turning at least America into a war zone.

    Surprisingly that isn't the case, because most people who play video games, know it's just that. A game.

    Lastly, when did pedophilia get into this debate? I'm dead serious, did I miss something? The characters in this game are of the legal age in Japan. In the localization, their ages were censored out. Now, look at the characters in this game. Suppose you knew nothing about the game at all, not even the name, just the character designs, and I asked you to guess their age. I would guess most of you would assume they were young adults.

    Because honestly, Japan has an odd quirk of making teenagers look like adults.

    And, now call this a hunch, but something inside of me would guess that a real life pedophile would not be attracted to the body type that is prevalent in Senran Kagura Burst. And that is mature looking well endowed women.

  302. Cribster Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:24

    Just because they've censored the ages doesn't change the fact that the characters were created as 15-18 year olds and are brought to the western world without significant changes (from what I know), meaning they are as they were intended to be.

  303. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:26

    Sorry, do your morals not account for the fact that you work on paedophilic cartoon porn?


    I think we're in disagreement on what paedophilia actually is. As far as I'm concerned, I always stay well within the law, which is the standardardised interpretation of morals that we have.

  304. Cribster Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:28

    Sorry, do your morals not account for the fact that you work on paedophilic cartoon porn?


    I think we're in disagreement on what paedophilia actually is. As far as I'm concerned, I always stay well within the law, which is the standardardised interpretation of morals that we have.


    Last time I checked laws aren't subjugate to opinions, especially those of the persons in question.

  305. Metr01d Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:32

    So, are you saying this could all be solved if they kept the same bodies, clothes, personalities etc and just changed the little number beside their name from 15 to 18? You realise they aren't 15 year old girls, right? If they didn't disclose their ages in the first place, would this still be paedophilia?

  306. RobertK Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:32

    Yes, kids may not be able to differentiate reality from fiction. That is why we have age classifications. This game is rated 16. Therefore there shouldn't be any kids playing it who can't differentiate reality from fiction.

    And sure, there are probably some adults who can't differentiate between the two. However, they are very much in the minority. Are you going to ban Call of Duty because there might be some people who think they're actually fighting a war and go out and murder people?

    I actually wrote a bit about COD in the original post but I thought it made it a bit too long.
    I'd just like to point out, that age restrictions aren't fool-proof. Plenty of under 16 y/o's manage to get games above an 18 age. As you said, there shouldn't be kids playing it, but to think there are no kids playing it is a naive thought.

    The problem with COD and games of the like is actually proving the fact that the games alone caused that person or people to commit the murder.
    People attribute the fact that a kid shot up a school to the fact that he played COD when in fact there is a whole lot more going on in that scenario. Certainly, a correlation may be drawn, but causation would imply that the game alone made him go out, buy a gun and kill someone.

    What we have with the images of a paedophilic nature is the fact that they have:
    A) Been taken IRL ie child harmed in taking of photo
    B) Been drawn and mass produced, facilitating paedophilia and invariably influencing someone that enjoys the act to want more than an image to look at.

    Images like that are facilitating a perversion, while a game on a television is not.
    There's a fine line between Correlation and Causality and it is one that most people find it hard to differentiate between.

  307. AtrusHomeboy Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:34


    Let's put it this way; what are your reasons for wanting to play this game as well as make others of it's ilk.

    Also if your answer did not include "sexual perversions which include paedophilia" then why this game over more socially acceptable alternatives?


    Let's put it this way; what are your reasons for wanting to watch Saw as well as make other movies of it's ilk.

    Also if your answer did not include "murderous tendencies and other forms of bloodlust" then why this movie over more socially acceptable alternatives?

    PROTIP: Human beings aren't as incapable of rational thought as you seem to think they are, though your post does make for a convincing counterpoint.

  308. RobertK Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:38

    Basically, from your posts, you're assuming that:

    A) All adults can separate between reality and fiction
    B) Kids are Generally worse at separating reality from fiction

    While, in general, kids certainly cannot differentiate between the two lines as well as adults, that is not to say that there aren't some who can differentiate entirely,
    Also, not ALL adults can differentiate like you seem to believe

    What I'm getting at is that your statement that "They don't harm anyone" is fundamentally wrong.
    There will be those, both adults and kids, that will be unable to differentiate between reality and fiction, and these images or works will have a profound effect on their actions.

    Out of the billions in the world at least one person is going to be affected by an image and it will hurt someone. What you are essentially advocating in an above post is paedophilia and I really think you should assess the things that you have written on here before you advocate other things that may be damaging.


    Why are kids being brought up? This game is obviously not intended for children, and is rated Pegi 16. Even so, it's not our job nor society's to raise a kid, it's the parents. If a parent is exposing their child to material not intended for them, than that isn't the material's problem, that's the parent's problem.

    And what mentally sound adults are unable to distinguish reality and fiction? If you know an adult that can't, than I implore you to help them seek psychiatric help before they hurt themselves or others, because the ability to understand fiction and reality is very vital to life, and an adult who has trouble understanding that can be a risk to anyone around them, including their self. Not being able to understand fiction and reality is a very very major problem for an adult.

    And yeah, I would think, considering Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto are two of the most popular western video game series, played by millions in the world on a daily basis, if your logic was correct all these people would be going around shooting people, stealing cars, and turning at least America into a war zone.

    Surprisingly that isn't the case, because most people who play video games, know it's just that. A game.

    Lastly, when did pedophilia get into this debate? I'm dead serious, did I miss something? The characters in this game are of the legal age in Japan. In the localization, their ages were censored out. Now, look at the characters in this game. Suppose you knew nothing about the game at all, not even the name, just the character designs, and I asked you to guess their age. I would guess most of you would assume they were young adults.

    Because honestly, Japan has an odd quirk of making teenagers look like adults.

    And, now call this a hunch, but something inside of me would guess that a real life pedophile would not be attracted to the body type that is prevalent in Senran Kagura Burst. And that is mature looking well endowed women.

    Firstly, I am not for or against this game, it is just a game to me. Whether I will buy it or not remains to be seen wrt gameplay and all that.

    Secondly, if you look at my previous post in which I quoted KaiWeinefelt when he said "I have no problems with 15 year old sex objects, as long as they're just fictional. They don't harm anyone." That is when Paedophilia was brought into the topic and I commented in relation to his post and how it was wrong, in intent or just poorly worded.

    In no way does this game have anything to do with Paedophilia (I hope) however it would seem that the ages were censored or something to that effect.

    I was merely commenting on that forumites post, with no relation or opinion on the game itself

  309. Yirba Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:42

    Wait, hang on - wasn't it mentioned earlier that loli porn was illegal in the UK?


    Underage loli porn is. Lolis who are over the age of 18 are perfectly legal.

    I think we're in disagreement on what paedophilia actually is. As far as I'm concerned, I always stay well within the law, which is the standardardised interpretation of morals that we have.


    Last time I checked laws aren't subjugate to opinions, especially those of the persons in question.


    That's correct. Which is why when I say I stay within the law, I mean it. There's no opinion to it.

  310. LewiiG Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:45

    Just because they've censored the ages doesn't change the fact that the characters were created as 15-18 year olds and are brought to the western world without significant changes (from what I know), meaning they are as they were intended to be.


    Bringing a game like this with "significant changes" would be completely pointless. The fact that they have to censor the ages THE AGES to stop westerners crying is just humiliating. I still can't believe that Dead or Alive Dimensions was banned in Sweden, Norway, and Denmark for featuring like 2 characters who were under 16 and labelling it CHILD PORN! Or that they had to add like 2 centimeters of cloth to the box art's character's clothing to the American box art to cover up some of her leg. Fgs. They removed the ages from those games too. There are so many example's of this pathetic censorship, Japan must be laughing at how petty we are. Ugh, rules this, ban that, blah blah blah god damn high up tea drinking moralists, focus on something that matters.

  311. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:49

    I have no problems with 15 year old sex objects, as long as they're just fictional. They don't harm anyone.

    Basically, from your posts, you're assuming that:

    A) All adults can separate between reality and fiction
    B) Kids are Generally worse at separating reality from fiction

    While, in general, kids certainly cannot differentiate between the two lines as well as adults, that is not to say that there aren't some who can differentiate entirely,
    Also, not ALL adults can differentiate like you seem to believe

    What I'm getting at is that your statement that "They don't harm anyone" is fundamentally wrong.
    There will be those, both adults and kids, that will be unable to differentiate between reality and fiction, and these images or works will have a profound effect on their actions.

    Out of the billions in the world at least one person is going to be affected by an image and it will hurt someone. What you are essentially advocating in an above post is paedophilia and I really think you should assess the things that you have written on here before you advocate other things that may be damaging.

    A) Yes, they can. Unless they have psychological issues, but that's not the fault of fiction. If you have an adult shooting classmates in the US, and that adult say to media "Hey, I was inspired by Call of Duty", CoD is never to be blamed for such a thing. NEVER. It's the individual's decision and action that are to blame, and he alone bears all responsibility for his terrible actions, and no one else. Apply the same to games with sexual content in them.
    B) Yes, they are. Of course, some kids are different. But generally speaking, the vast majority is not as good at it as adults. If a ten year old kid wants to play Senran Kagura Burst and his or her parents know he/she can handle it, I wouldn't stop that kid from playing.

    Yes, a few people can't draw the line between fiction and reality, I agree with that, but that doesn't mean that freedom of speech or creative freedom should be limited in any way. If you are going to limit creativity by something that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE finds offensive, or motivates SOMEONE to commit a crime, then you'll have to remove almost everything. Movies, books, games, litterarure - pretty much all fiction there is. You can't remove or censor stuff just because one idiot out of one million normal people will use the fiction to do something wrong.

    I'm OK with pedophilia in fiction. I have no problems with it existing - because it's harmless. In Sweden, it's fully legal to write stories about pedophilia or pedo fantasies. You find them horribly offensive? Don't read them. You know the book Lolita? It's widely considered to be in top 50 of the greatest books of 20th century. Do you think that book has inspired a generation of people to become pedophiles, or made pedophiles commit crimes? I don't think so.

    It's also legal to distribute and look at lolicon in Sweden, even extreme forms of lolicon. I don't personally like extreme forms of lolicon, but I have no problem with it merely existing, because I don't want to ban everything that I find offensive myself. If it doesn't hurt anyone, then there's no reason to ban it.

    Real child porn is illegal for a reason. Sexualized 15 year old girls in fiction are not - also for a reason.

    People need to stop acting on feelings, and start discussing this objectively.

  312. Arfoo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:53

    People going on about pedophilia and 15-18 year olds. (Have you people heard about ephebophilia?)
    People going on about how it's harmful and blah blah blah how it alienates and degrades women and blah blah blah without realising how much they generalise and try to represent everybody.
    People equating genres of fiction with murder, rape and whatever.
    Porn is harmful and should be banned and blah blah because womyn and tumblrfeminism and.

    And so forth it is awful how much stupidity tumblrfeminism brings to game journalism and communities.

    This is literally the kind of bullcrap that gets stuff banned for no apparent reason, something akin of banning Dragonball for child porn.

  313. LewiiG Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:55


    In no way does this game have anything to do with Paedophilia (I hope) however it would seem that the ages were censored or something to that effect.


    Nope, none at all. Yeah, the ages were censored, for some reason. Paedophilia by definition is "sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger." So I do not see how these 15-18 year old girls have anything to do with paedophilia, and I think we can all see that they are not prepubescent. Some of my friend's girlfriends are 15 when they are 18. Are they paedophiles?

  314. ProtoRobo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 19:56

    Just because they've censored the ages doesn't change the fact that the characters were created as 15-18 year olds and are brought to the western world without significant changes (from what I know), meaning they are as they were intended to be.


    Bringing a game like this with "significant changes" would be completely pointless. The fact that they have to censor the ages THE AGES to stop westerners crying is just humiliating. I still can't believe that Dead or Alive Dimensions was banned in Sweden, Norway, and Denmark for featuring like 2 characters who were under 16 and labelling it CHILD PORN! Or that they had to add like 2 centimeters of cloth to the box art's character's clothing to the American box art to cover up some of her leg. Fgs. They removed the ages from those games too. There are so many example's of this pathetic censorship, Japan must be laughing at how petty we are. Ugh, rules this, ban that, blah blah blah god damn high up tea drinking moralists, focus on something that matters.


    Actually, I don't think DoA:D was outright banned, they simply didn't chose to distribute it since they didn't want to tempt any legal issues, since it was during that manga translator court case, and releasing it might have looked bad and sparked unwanted attention.

    Don't get me wrong, it still sucks that happened, but to my knowledge if you imported a copy of the game, the Sweden police won't bust your door down for owning it.

  315. Mart2006 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:00

    There's so many things wrong with this article. For starters, let's look at the grammar in the third paragraph.

    For starters, lets look at the characters in the game.

  316. LewiiG Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:05


    Actually, I don't think DoA:D was outright banned, they simply didn't chose to distribute it since they didn't want to tempt any legal issues, since it was during that manga translator court case, and releasing it might have looked bad and sparked unwanted attention.

    Don't get me wrong, it still sucks that happened, but to my knowledge if you imported a copy of the game, the Sweden police won't bust your door down for owning it.


    Oh right, I see. Yeah, I just remember the fuss over it and was like "really?"

  317. Teh_Black_Mage Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:06

    There's so many things wrong with this article. For starters, let's look at the grammar in the third paragraph.

    For starters, lets look at the characters in the game.


    You have opened my eyes this article is garbage.

  318. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:08

    Actually, I don't think DoA:D was outright banned, they simply didn't chose to distribute it since they didn't want to tempt any legal issues, since it was during that manga translator court case, and releasing it might have looked bad and sparked unwanted attention.

    Don't get me wrong, it still sucks that happened, but to my knowledge if you imported a copy of the game, the Sweden police won't bust your door down for owning it.

    It's not illegal to own Dead or Alive in Sweden, nor was it "banned". What happened was that the distributor/NoE didn't dare to release it because, at the time, the Swedish law was very unclear (and still is, in some ways) about what's actually defined as child porn when it comes to cartoons) and they just chose the safest route possible. Also, some troll on Flashback threatened to report them to the police.

    I own Dead or Alive myself, and it was sold openly at a Swedish retailer called Webbhallen. And no, they didn't get in hot water for it. On the contrary they pretty much got ALL of Sweden's Dead or Alive Dimensions sales, because they were pretty much the only retailer in the whole country who had the balls to sell it. And it payed off.

    About the ages in Senran Kagura Burst, I believe they were removed because XSEED and Zen United wanted to avoid unnecessary trouble, since some countries in Europe have laws that could POSSIBLE (a tiny risk, but possibly) define the game as child porn, since the girls are heavily sexualized, and most of them are younger than 18.

  319. trooper92 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:16

    Asians are known for having small breasts so this is a misrepresentation of a noble and honourable culture.

  320. LewiiG Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:20

    Asians are known for having small breasts so this is a misrepresentation of a noble and honourable culture.


    Still a stereotype and an average.

  321. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:26

    Sometimes, it's also very subjective whether you interpret something as "erotic" or "cute". Look at this for example:

    Well, as you can see, ONM deemed the Mirai figurine as "pornographic".

    Is it erotic because she has stay-ups, panties and no top? Or is it cute because she looks like a kitten? It's all in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I think it's a mix of both - but it's up to each and everyone to decide. There's no universal rule here.

    Thank you for the definition. Though that is by no means a universal rule.

  322. trooper92 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:33

    Asians are known for having small breasts so this is a misrepresentation of a noble and honourable culture.


    Still a stereotype and an average.

    OK, Jamaicans aren't good at running, Chinese aren't good at gymnastics and eskimos aren't better equipped for cooler climates.

  323. LewiiG Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:41

    OK, Jamaicans aren't good at running, Chinese aren't good at gymnastics and eskimos aren't better equipped for cooler climates.

    xD I highly doubt though that that is simply a result of race. Perhaps upbrining or something like that. Maybe Japanese women have the one of the lowest average breast size because of their diet or something? It's an average anyway so those statistics really don't just represent every individual, and doesn't suddenly mean they shouldn't put big breasts in games. They use various sizes in games usually anyway.

    Sometimes, it's also very subjective whether you interpret something as "erotic" or "cute". Look at this for example:

    It's my official Mirai figurine! :-D The name for this figurine is "Take me home". She's supposed to be a stray cat sitting on a box, waiting for a kind soul to bring her home. I would certainly bring her home... <3

    Is it erotic because she has stay-ups, panties and no top? Or is it cute because she looks like a kitten? It's all in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I think it's a mix of both - but it's up to each and everyone to decide. There's no universal rule here.

    Whoa, Déjà vu xD

  324. trooper92 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:42

    OK, Jamaicans aren't good at running, Chinese aren't good at gymnastics and eskimos aren't better equipped for cooler climates.

    xD I highly doubt though that that is simply a result of race. Perhaps upbrining or something like that. Maybe Japanese women have the one of the lowest average breast size because of their diet or something? It's an average anyway so those statistics really don't just represent every individual.

    I didn't say they all had small baps. As a race though, they are smaller than others. That is a scientific fact. I can explain why if you really still don't get it.

  325. LewiiG Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:46


    I didn't they all had small baps. As a race though, they are smaller than others. That is a scientific fact. I can explain why if you really still don't get it.

    I know it's a fact that on AVERAGE they are smaller. You mean, you know the reason why they have smaller breasts on average? I'd certainly be interested to know. Not being sarcastic.

  326. trooper92 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:47

    Don't get lippy with me.

  327. Rastamau5 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:48

    http://puu.sh/6t6qk.gif

  328. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:49

    At the end of the day, do you think this blog resulted in:

    A) Less people buying Senran Kagura Burst
    B) More people getting aware of the game
    C) More people buying Senran Kagura Burst

    The blog is not just discussed here, it's on IGN NeoGAF and a few other places, too.

    ?

  329. trooper92 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:51

    C

  330. samus_killer Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:51

    Well, obviously 'B', but most likely 'C' as well.

  331. LewiiG Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 20:52

    Don't get lippy with me.


    Shame, I'd have liked to know. I was being serious xD

  332. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 21:01

    The Senran Kagura producer has responded to the blog:

    http://i.imgur.com/fcKQTKG.jpg

    I wonder how big this blog is going to grow, in terms of awareness... ONM certainly hit the jackpot of clicks.

  333. ProtoRobo Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 21:13

    At the end of the day, do you think this blog resulted in:

    A) Less people buying Senran Kagura Burst
    B) More people getting aware of the game
    C) More people buying Senran Kagura Burst

    The blog is not just discussed here, it's on IGN NeoGAF and a few other places, too.

    ?


    B and C. I doubt the people who weren't aware of this game in the first place would be interested in it, since that's the general thing with niche games. But I've seen many people who were unaware of the game decide to pick it up because of this article. Heck, I've seen a few people decide to buy the game just to spite the article. And good for them.

    Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a paid article. Probably isn't, but I wish it was. Social Justice controversy like this and the Dragon's Crown Sorceress only proved to spark interest in the game. Though on a whole I really hope 'video game jounalism' gets out of this edgy teen social justice phase and back to actually reporting on video games. Unfortunately, seeing how well this article did, it'll only prove that you can still get those clicks through sensationalism, and journalistic integrity in this field is dead. If it was ever even alive.

    The Senran Kagura producer has responded to the blog:

    http://i.imgur.com/fcKQTKG.jpg

    I wonder how big this blog is going to grow, in terms of awareness... ONM certainly hit the jackpot of clicks.


    I really hope someone has cleared up to him that this was some random guy who managed to get published somehow, and not Nintendo themselves dissing the series. I will be very angry if future Senran Kagura titles no longer appear on the 3DS because he thinks Nintendo doesn't want the series.

    Though hopefully, sales will speak louder than words.

  334. KaiWeinefelt Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 21:22

    Even foreign sites (in other languages than English) have gotten aware of this blog now:

    http://www.3djuegos.com/comunidad-foros/tema/28135676/0/facepalm-la-official-nintendo-magazine-critica-duramente-a-senran-kagura-burst/

    Well, I'm pretty sure Zen United and MAQL Europe should thank Chris for some free advertising! :mrgreen:

  335. jdofthefunk Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 21:57

    This is getting ridiculous. Now other people (even the producer of the game) have seen this article and are tying the opinion to ONM, with negative feedback. Good job, Rooke.

  336. Jack_Davis Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 22:03

    The only thing damaging the video game industry is feminist/liberal politics being injected into them. And I don't particularly understand this new wave of feminism. Is it aimed at defending the rights of real women across the globe or is it just aimed at supporting censorship in video games/entertainment/media that portray women in a non-conservative fashion? Either way, if that's what feminists are campaigning for, their war against anything remotely sexual, or just about anything that doesn't cover women from head to toe, then I am greatly dissapointed.

    And before you complain, sexualization does not equal sexism. It is natural for women to be sexualized in the very same fashion men are. Our sexuality is wired in our brain, and it can't be helped if some of us are huge perverts. :)

    To be fair, women sexualize women/men just as men do. Take DeviantART and Pixiv for example. Both of those websites are full of art that portray scantly dressed men and women by female artists. Female artists are also known to sexualize men in the form of yaoi or gay erotica that normally portray 2 or more men. There are also women who draw porn and some who "sexualize" women themselves. Are they being sexist because they sexualize women or men? I believe not.

    Romance novels aimed at young female teens that you can find at your local Kmart/Target/Walmart also feature romance stories that sexualize men. Their front covers generally feature photographs of scantly dress men in sexually suggestive poses to market them to their female teen demographic. Are they "sexist" towards men because they feature men in sexually suggestive poses? No

    Therefore, if we apply the same logic in video games, there is no "sexism" in games just as any entertainment or artistic medium because sexualizing male/females does not "equate" to sexism because no actual women/men are being "degraded."

    Real sexism infers to when women or men are being denied opportunities, basic rights, and/or their merits being downplayed simply because of their gender. A woman or man that who is wearing a revealing attire is not "degrading" themselves because of their outfit. The outfit is simply part of their character and that's that.

    Liberals and feminists need to focus on 2nd/3rd world nations that really need every bit of activism/funds they can get. Many women in the Middle East are still covered up from head to toe, cannot vote, cannot participate in government, and can't even drive a car on their own without being accompanied by a man. And many women from the middle east champion for their rights to wear whatever they want and to be treated as human, yet all the while Western mainstream "Feminists" complain about 2D women and their outfits/attire from video games/comics/entertainment

    Come on Liberals/feminists, get your priorities organized. Its not video games/entertainment the problem, its the politic and working conditions that keep women advancing in these nations the real priorities we ought to be focused at....

  337. gillytine777 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 22:34

    There's so many things wrong with this article. For starters, let's look at the grammar in the third paragraph.

    For starters, lets look at the characters in the game.

    I'm aware of the grammatical imperfections in the article, but if you're going to criticise, get your own right first.

  338. Ackeron Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 23:37

    It's art, dammit! Art!

  339. jimbob555 Tuesday 21st Jan 2014 at 23:46

    ONM IS FAMOUS AT LAST THANK YOU NEOGAF

    IVE BEEN HERE 8 YEARS WAITING FOR THIS DAY

  340. Aepyx Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 00:56

    am i famouse

  341. SlowkingMan Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 02:01

    But is it a good game?

  342. oneofakind_055 Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 02:57

    *sigh* Look, playing Senran Kagura isn't going to turn you into a paedophile. The game doesn't emit electromagnetic waves from the screen that messes with your mind and makes you go out and start raping people. This is in just the same way that playing Call of Duty doesn't make you whip out a gun and go on a killing spree.

    If there is any correlation whatsoever between the two, it's because those people were already paedophiles in the first place, and it probably makes sense for a paedophile to want to play games that involve youthful characters.

    That doesn't mean the rest of us can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy, though.


    Let's put it this way; what are your reasons for wanting to play this game as well as make others of it's ilk.

    Also if your answer did not include "sexual perversions which include paedophilia" then why this game over more socially acceptable alternatives?

    Ever since I was a kid, I like beat 'em up games. I watched gameplay videos of the game before I bought it. And here's the biggest shock, this game also carries a pretty heavy and still ongoing plot that ties other characters with their interactions, a general plot that shifts and changes as you go through each chapter, issues that some of the characters have in their emotional baggage, and the opportunity to look at what was happening between the two schools from two different perspectives. If the character were middle-aged, balding, fat guys and it still have some of the gameplay I like, I'd still buy it.

  343. Yirba Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 03:03

    But is it a good game?


    ONM will have their review of the game in the next issue of the magazine.

  344. SeventhBanana Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 03:35

    I'm not even going to bother addressing the author's "points" here, because they're simply not worth addressing.

    I will just say this. This game isn't damaging anything. Don't like it? Don't play it. Be an adult and recognize it's not for you. Don't be a child and spread fear and paranoia and lies.

    Moving on. Do you know what might ACTUALLY damage the industry?

    An employee of a company going on their website and publicly trashing one of their products and telling people how (in their deranged opinion) horrible it is.

    In any other line of work, doing this would get you fired. It baffles me that this post was allowed, that someone hasn't removed it. This drivel says nothing about the game itself, it's just a load of nonsense. This has no place being on an official Nintendo website, and I'm disgusted to see that it's been allowed to stay up here so long.

    Take your whining and your bigotry to somewhere where it belongs.

  345. Yirba Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 03:41

    An employee of a company going on their website and publicly trashing one of their products and telling people how (in their deranged opinion) horrible it is.


    Chris isn't actually an employee of Future. He's just some guy who ONM allowed to use their website to host his drivel.

  346. Maxz Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 08:37

    xD I highly doubt though that that is simply a result of race. Perhaps upbrining or something like that. Maybe Japanese women have the one of the lowest average breast size because of their diet or something? It's an average anyway so those statistics really don't just represent every individual.

    I didn't say they all had small baps. As a race though, they are smaller than others. That is a scientific fact. I can explain why if you really still don't get it.

    I'm glad this discussion is progressing constructively. Clearly the influence of the topic material has played no part in the start of this enthusiastic discussion of the female anatomy in particular ethnic groups. It's nice to see people so merrily engaged in debate about the peoples of the world. Culture make humans really interesting, right? Or was that chest size? - I forget.


    http://www.animate.tv/news/visual/2014/1389150199_1_1_eb1beedcb0dd1c12476b64a56ffa3ecd.jpg

    http://www.animate.tv/news/visual/2014/1389150199_1_20_5eb512e7733c04baf467f9bd7693d75d.jpg

    I've highlighted these pictures to address the continued claims that, "there is no link between the worlds of fiction and fantasy; fictional works like this game have no effect on lives of real people" - Which I has been stated numerously by poster of the images. I assume this means that the women in the above picture - who are seemingly being paid to get groped in public for the release of a video game about smacking schoolgirls until their clothes fall of - are not real. Which is an even more worrying claim.

    Another line of defence for the game's content is that it is 'Japanese', and - as a product of different culture - is being wrongly judged by Western standards. To which is needs pointing out that this game IS now being released in the West - which is the entire motivation for this article. There has been no coverage in the Magazine (or anything affiliated) of the Japanese release of this game, or of pretty much any Japanese game. If it wasn't going to be released in Britain, this article would have never been published. However, it is, and this game is now no more 'exclusively Japanese' than Mario, Zelda or F-Zero. Games which have never been proclaimed as 'beyond the judgement of the Nihonically-ignorant'. It is now coming to the West, and - oddly enough - appears to be being judged from Western perspectives as a result. To sate that Western people do not have the right to take issue with a product that lines their shelves in ridiculous.

    Despite the game being no longer 'exclusively Japanese' than anything else, there is a still a lingering cultural snobbery that pervades a large amount of this article's backlash. Whether you know the favourite foods of the entire cast of Chobitz, or if over two thousand Kanji, including the correct stroke order for 'Rose' - your opinion is no more valid on the subject schoolgirl stripping games being released in Europe. Gathering together like an gang of 'culturally-englightened' super-beings is just as irrelevant and irritating as the supposed 'gathering of feminists' that the author is being accused of trying to summon in order to quash this game. This a debate, is not a cultural competition.

    It is also worth pointing out that the country this game was born in DOES also have its own cultural problems - just like any other - and these cannot simply be simply masked as 'lack of understanding' or 'Western perspective'. While no direct correlation can be stated between the effects of schoolgirl stripping games and real-world assault, it should at least be acknowledged that Japan is notorious for sexual molesting; so much so that many train-lines have 'Women Only carriages' to try and prevent them. A survey of two private high-schools in Tokyo revealed that more than 70% of female students had been groped on while on train. Nearly 4000 men were arrested for sexual molesting in 2003. A Tokyo metropolitan government survey of 632 women in their 20s and 30s found two-thirds had been molested in carriages or train stations. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/24/japan). Those are unarguably horrific numbers, and show a serious problem in the existence of certain attitudes to women in Japan.

    It is clear that worryingly similar attitudes towards women exist in both fiction AND real world Japan (regardless of which causes which). This game is not a piece of the county's cultural quilt that is best shared with the rest of the world. It is a reality that needs accepting, and certain things cannot cower behind the tag of 'cultural differences'. It's a defence that's used time and time again for anything that happens to be both disturbing and Japanese. Every country produces an inconceivable variety of output, and to justify some fringe interest as being 'representative of an entire culture' is an insult to the people who actually make that culture up. Even if a culture is more inclined to accept something, that doesn't justify it any more. Sexism and racism don't become fine because 'everyone dos it'. The Western world has been through periods where racism has been written firmly and unashamedly into the law. That didn't somehow make it any less cruel and despicable a concept.

    Also, people seem to vehemently deny the simple idea that; having a fictional platform in which to entertain an idea develops that idea in real life, and leaves it easier to continue entertaining in one's thoughts. Many people have said that any 'sane and normal' person would be able to distinguish between the fiction and reality, but firstly; unconscious influence exists regardless of sanity levels, and secondly - and painfully obviously - this game is NOT being sold exclusively to 'sane and normal' people (however they're specifically defined). It is being sold to pretty much every person, of every disposition. There's also the crowd who can't see any wider effects outside themselves, and view the criticism of the game as personal accusations that they are actually creepy, insane, school-girl-train-molesting paedophiles. Which clearly isn't correct either.

    It is true that the game will not directly cause a sudden wave of sexual assaults to sweep the country, but regardless; it is still a game based around reducing jewel-eyed, balloon-chested female schoolchildren to their underwear by smacking them around. Such a fundamentally sexist subtext is as inexcusable as a fundamentally racist one, and it is unacceptable in principle. No matter how 'inoffensive' or 'fictional' a game based entirely about a racist construct would be, it would still be unacceptable. The same applies to something so clearly and utterly sexist/genderist.

  347. Yirba Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 09:06

    I've highlighted these pictures to address the continued claims that, "there is no link between the worlds of fiction and fantasy; fictional works like this game have no effect on lives of real people" - Which I has been stated numerously by poster of the images. I assume this means that the women in the above picture - who are seemingly being paid to get groped in public for the release of a video game about smacking schoolgirls until their clothes fall of - are not real. Which is an even more worrying claim.


    That's an artificial link that the publisher made to promote the game. The actual game world itself has no connection to the real world.

    There has been no coverage in the Magazine (or anything affiliated) of the Japanese release of this game, or of pretty much any Japanese game.


    And this is why ONM still hasn't managed to top issue 20 (where they had a feature on such games as Doki Doki Majo Shinpan) in all these years. Still, the whole thing about Japanese culture is kinda irrelevant to this debate, in my opinion. There's nothing wrong with the game, regardless of whichever country it's being released in.

    It is true that the game will not directly cause a sudden wave of sexual assaults to sweep the country, but regardless; it is still a game based around reducing jewel-eyed, balloon-chested female schoolchildren to their underwear by smacking them around. Such a fundamentally sexist subtext is as inexcusable as a fundamentally racist one, and it is unacceptable in principle. No matter how 'inoffensive' or 'fictional' a game based entirely about a racist construct would be, it would still be unacceptable. The same applies to something so clearly and utterly sexist/genderist.


    I don't see how this game is sexist. I'm all for gender equality, so if it were sexist, I'd be opposed to it. Just because something features sexual content doesn't mean it's sexist. It's not as if it's demeaning to women.

  348. KaiWeinefelt Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 10:13


    http://www.animate.tv/news/visual/2014/1389150199_1_1_eb1beedcb0dd1c12476b64a56ffa3ecd.jpg

    http://www.animate.tv/news/visual/2014/1389150199_1_20_5eb512e7733c04baf467f9bd7693d75d.jpg

    I've highlighted these pictures to address the continued claims that, "there is no link between the worlds of fiction and fantasy; fictional works like this game have no effect on lives of real people" - Which I has been stated numerously by poster of the images. I assume this means that the women in the above picture - who are seemingly being paid to get groped in public for the release of a video game about smacking schoolgirls until their clothes fall of - are not real. Which is an even more worrying claim.

    Those images are from an announcement event. Everything is scripted and made to please the fans of the game. It's kind of like a movie or a play - it's fiction too, but uses real people instead of cartoons. They're just doing what they're doing for this special event, and they're not acting like this in their everyday lives.

    Another line of defence for the game's content is that it is 'Japanese', and - as a product of different culture - is being wrongly judged by Western standards. To which is needs pointing out that this game IS now being released in the West - which is the entire motivation for this article. There has been no coverage in the Magazine (or anything affiliated) of the Japanese release of this game, or of pretty much any Japanese game. If it wasn't going to be released in Britain, this article would have never been published. However, it is, and this game is now no more 'exclusively Japanese' than Mario, Zelda or F-Zero. Games which have never been proclaimed as 'beyond the judgement of the Nihonically-ignorant'. It is now coming to the West, and - oddly enough - appears to be being judged from Western perspectives as a result. To sate that Western people do not have the right to take issue with a product that lines their shelves in ridiculous.

    I've said this already but I'll repeat myself: I would have no problem with the blog if the writer was simply stating his opinions, and what he believes in. But that was not how it was written now. It clearly is an attack on everyone who enjoy these games, calling them names (indirectly) and telling everyone who is not a feminist how wrong they are, how harmful these games are for women even OUTSIDE the gaming industry and more. When you write something in such an aggressive way, this is what happens. I think the same would've happened if he had attacked Mario, Zelda, GTA or any other franchise in a similar way.

    Despite the game being no longer 'exclusively Japanese' than anything else, there is a still a lingering cultural snobbery that pervades a large amount of this article's backlash. Whether you know the favourite foods of the entire cast of Chobitz, or if over two thousand Kanji, including the correct stroke order for 'Rose' - your opinion is no more valid on the subject schoolgirl stripping games being released in Europe. Gathering together like an gang of 'culturally-englightened' super-beings is just as irrelevant and irritating as the supposed 'gathering of feminists' that the author is being accused of trying to summon in order to quash this game. This a debate, is not a cultural competition.

    Haha, this made me LOL. If anyone is a cultural snob, it's Chris and extreme feminists in general. What he basically did in the blog was telling everyone "these are the right values, this is the right view on this - if you don't agree, you're wrong". What he COULD have done, but did not do, was to express his opinions like this "I think this game stinks because it goes against all values and views I have on women in games." But he tries to make, just like so many other extreme feminists, his feminist values as the only universally correct ones, telling everyone "if you don't share these values, you're wrong". I don't think feminist values are universally wrong, it's just that there exists many different kinds of values, and people are different.

    I believe people should have the freedom to choose their own path in life. What extreme feminists like Chris tries to do with this blog was to force his ideals and values upon others in a very aggressive way. THAT is what triggered the strong reaction, I believe. People don't like having values and ideals forced upon them, especially if they don't share those values and ideals from the start.

    It is also worth pointing out that the country this game was born in DOES also have its own cultural problems - just like any other - and these cannot simply be simply masked as 'lack of understanding' or 'Western perspective'. While no direct correlation can be stated between the effects of schoolgirl stripping games and real-world assault, it should at least be acknowledged that Japan is notorious for sexual molesting; so much so that many train-lines have 'Women Only carriages' to try and prevent them. A survey of two private high-schools in Tokyo revealed that more than 70% of female students had been groped on while on train. Nearly 4000 men were arrested for sexual molesting in 2003. A Tokyo metropolitan government survey of 632 women in their 20s and 30s found two-thirds had been molested in carriages or train stations. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/24/japan). Those are unarguably horrific numbers, and show a serious problem in the existence of certain attitudes to women in Japan.

    Heh, I knew you would bring up those trains because they're so infamous. At least you admitted that there's no correlation between this groping on trains and ecchi games. And well, in Sweden, there are LOTS of rape being reported each year - yet Sweden is seen as one of the most gender equal countries in the world, maybe just beaten by Norway. This kind of debate may be relatively new to the UK, but in Sweden it has been goin for a long time. I recognized every single feminist cliché that Chris was using in the blog, and it's pretty easy for me to argue because I'm so used to it.

    In Sweden, where feminism is a lot more extreme than in today's UK (I believe so, at least), we've heard things from politicians like:

    1) Men should not be allowed to stand up while they pee
    2) Fathers should be forced to stay on maturnity leave for 50 % of the time, even if neither the father nor the mother wants that
    3) Women should be allocated by quotas into boards of directors so that everything becomes equal
    4) The physical tests for police education have been lowered for women so that they have a greater chance of becoming cops

    It's the extreme feminism that will take over the political debate, because their willpower is a lot stronger than ordinary feminists who just want to live their own lives according to feminism values. The UK and US will experience this soon enough, I think - so get ready. ;)

    It is clear that worryingly similar attitudes towards women exist in both fiction AND real world Japan (regardless of which causes which). This game is not a piece of the county's cultural quilt that is best shared with the rest of the world. It is a reality that needs accepting, and certain things cannot cower behind the tag of 'cultural differences'. It's a defence that's used time and time again for anything that happens to be both disturbing and Japanese. Every country produces an inconceivable variety of output, and to justify some fringe interest as being 'representative of an entire culture' is an insult to the people who actually make that culture up. Even if a culture is more inclined to accept something, that doesn't justify it any more. Sexism and racism don't become fine because 'everyone dos it'. The Western world has been through periods where racism has been written firmly and unashamedly into the law. That didn't somehow make it any less cruel and despicable a concept.

    OK, so now you do state that these games have something to do with the trains after all? Because there's absolutely no proof of that. It's just your assumption because it suits your argument.

    Also, people seem to vehemently deny the simple idea that; having a fictional platform in which to entertain an idea develops that idea in real life, and leaves it easier to continue entertaining in one's thoughts. Many people have said that any 'sane and normal' person would be able to distinguish between the fiction and reality, but firstly; unconscious influence exists regardless of sanity levels, and secondly - and painfully obviously - this game is NOT being sold exclusively to 'sane and normal' people (however they're specifically defined). It is being sold to pretty much every person, of every disposition. There's also the crowd who can't see any wider effects outside themselves, and view the criticism of the game as personal accusations that they are actually creepy, insane, school-girl-train-molesting paedophiles. Which clearly isn't correct either.

    While we do get affected by things like commercials, it's insane to think that normal adults would go out and rape school girls because they love Senran Kagura. Just as insane as it is to say that CoD fanatics would shoot their classmates the next day. A normal adult don't hurt other people - period.

    So according to you, we should ban CoD for EVERYONE because there are A FEW idiots in the US who have shot their classmates to death "because they were inspired by CoD"? This reminds me of Nintendo's Letterbox decision. A few idiots in Japan used it in very foul ways, and then they close down the service for everyone in the world. Is that the kind of decision you're talking about?

    It is true that the game will not directly cause a sudden wave of sexual assaults to sweep the country, but regardless; it is still a game based around reducing jewel-eyed, balloon-chested female schoolchildren to their underwear by smacking them around. Such a fundamentally sexist subtext is as inexcusable as a fundamentally racist one, and it is unacceptable in principle. No matter how 'inoffensive' or 'fictional' a game based entirely about a racist construct would be, it would still be unacceptable. The same applies to something so clearly and utterly sexist/genderist.

    I don't think racism should be "unacceptable" in ficition, because it's not about real people and it doesn't hurt anyone. People offensed by it are by no means forced to enjoy the game. Let's look at your racism argument for a bit:

    What about Zelda: Ocarina of Time? We hav Hylians, Kokiri, Zoras and Gerudos. How are the Gerudos (who are very similar to Arabs, BTW) treatened in the game? They're thiefs and although they're not all bad, most of them are portrayed as what we would call "bad". Hylians on the other hand are portrayed as some kind of "master race", being closest to the gods and so on. There's an obvious race discrimination going on in Ocarina of Time, but you know what? It's all fiction so people don't really care. The fictional characters in Ocarina of Time, even though some of them clearly resembles Arabs living in the desert, do not exist IRL.

    That's why we can and should have both sexism and racism in games and other fictional entertainment, if the creator wants to include it. As long as games don't use real people, I fail to see the problems with sexism and racism. But this thread was not about racism in the first place, so let's keep the discussion about sexism instead.

    EDIT

    Look, Senran Kagura Burst leads the pre-orders at ShopTo:

    http://i.imgur.com/QFPCQwT.jpg?1

    According to NeoGAF, it's the only shop (so far), which has it up for pre-order - but still! It's impossible to say how much Chris's blog contributed to this, but I guess it was at least a bit. :mrgreen:

    Also, look at this old issue of Nintendo Magazine (I think it's the Australian version?):

    http://i.imgur.com/Bk7Jrsi.jpg

    People didn't have problems with this in the past. Also note how Kim Wu (the girl in purple garb in the background) is only 17 years old - that was never any problem in 97, no one ever mentioned it.

    It seems that this issue has BECOME a problem with the videogame industry growing larger.

  349. Metr01d Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 11:35

    To be fair, just putting it out there: values and ideals change over time. Just because people didn't have a problem with it 15 years ago doesn't mean it's not a valid issue today. Take racism and homophobia. Those used to be fine and dandy but we can all agree they're wrong.

  350. evilpinkdragon Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 11:46

    Whilst I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with the games, I'm not sure I am comfortable with the direction the conversation is drifting in. The photographs that have been posted are, in my opinion, demeaning, despite the fact that those girls are probably perfectly fine with being paid to stand there in underwear and be touched and leered at for the purposes of promoting a game. This is bordering on a completely different topic so I won't go into details, but I do think that representing the values of the game in real life is wrong, as it's blurring the reality/fiction divide, however slightly. The same could go for people cosplaying as these characters- that and the press photos above are examples of the very few ways real girls/women could be viewed in the same way as the characters in that game and that doesn't sit well with me personally.
    Now, everyone has different opinions on various topics, so it would be nice if the bickering could stop... ONM's already getting unnecessarily bad press for this article as it is and whilst debate is good, the level that this one has reached is beyond healthy really.
    I think agreeing to disagree is the only thing we can all do here, as a complex topic on a social and moral grey area is arising over a fairly niche video game and things are being blown out of proportion so to speak.

  351. DargeD Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 13:45

    I think that in all fairness that it isn't right to think of women as objects however even if you do have scantily clad women if you can write a good plot it's fine. Just to look at the opposite end of the spectrum here, here is JoJo's bizarre adventure all-star battle, most of the protagonist are muscular men and Diavalo isn't exactly wearing the most clothes but at least the series is pretty well written if not bizarre. Games like Bayonetta even though it does have a lady dressed in extremely tight fitting clothes it still has fun gameplay and is not badly written if not over the top like most games by platinum are.
    http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/JoJo's_Bizar ... _(PS3_Game)
    http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/Diavolo

  352. Laf Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 13:48

    After this article preorders of Senran Kagura Burst literally exploded. Thanks for supporting western release of Senran Kagura Burst! God brest you!

  353. ProtoRobo Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 14:27

    http://i.imgur.com/It5xRPz.png

    http://i.imgur.com/VJ2wOUH.png

    http://i.imgur.com/VtVMFoC.png

    God brest us all.

  354. jimbob555 Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 14:43

    HELLO INTERNET HOW ARE YOU IM JIMBOB555 AND I REALLY LIKE TOKUSATSU WHO HERE LIKES IT ITS COOL

  355. lionessgirl Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 14:56

    This reminds me of a poll Bethsada ran on their forums, sometime around the release (or GOTY, this was a while ago) of Morrowind, trying to work out the demographics. I seem to remember that had a roughly 45/55 split. However, Morrowind is not a particularly feminist game; there is a (heavily-implied) brothel with dancing girls, the majority of the peole you end up rescuing are female and none of the Dagoths are female. However, there is also a female-only town, the "wise women" of the Ashlander tribes are respected (apart from one guy, who you end up killing) and very few charecters treat you differently because you're female. In fact, the only two people who act like creeps, do so regardless of the player's gender. Also, plenty of awsome female characters.

    In short, this game would be fine if it had some male charecters who were treated in the same way.

  356. KaiWeinefelt Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 15:02

    In short, this game would be fine if it had some male charecters who were treated in the same way.

    It's perfectly fine the way it is - videogames and fiction don't need to be politically correct and gender equal.

  357. Fubz Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 15:04

    HELLO INTERNET HOW ARE YOU IM JIMBOB555 AND I REALLY LIKE TOKUSATSU WHO HERE LIKES IT ITS COOL


    HELLO I AM ONM TOO PEOPLE. BE FREE TO SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE.

  358. Rai13 Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 15:15

    What am I reading

  359. jdofthefunk Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 15:55

    Chris Rooke has clearly used his article as reverse psychology, which in turn has attracted way more people into purchasing Senran, shooting the game up to the top of the charts. Nice work.

    Now, as Matthew said, let's see if that can work with the Wii U.

  360. KaiWeinefelt Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 16:02

    Chris Rooke has clearly used his article as reverse psychology, which in turn has attracted way more people into purchasing Senran, shooting the game up to the top of the charts. Nice work.

    Now, as Matthew said, let's see if that can work with the Wii U.

    It's not that good, though. The ShopTo chart represents the only store (so far, AFAIK) which is taking pre-orders for this game, and they also ship internationally. I'm sure more stores will stock it eventually, but right now the situation reminds me of the Dead or Alive Dimensions situation we had in Sweden in 2011. Webbhallen was the only Swedish store selling the game, and Dead or Alive Dimensions placed rather good on the multi format charts.

    I just hope European distributors and stores don't run away from this game with the tail between their legs just because of the cover art. If they can show guns and blood on store shelves, then they should have no problems with boobs either.

  361. Yirba Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 16:24

    In short, this game would be fine if it had some male charecters who were treated in the same way.


    I don't think this particular game needs such male characters. That would be like saying a girl group needs male members or that a boy band needs female members. Instead, I think we should look at a wider scope and try to encourage the industry to produce more games where male characters are treated in a similar way, in general.

  362. Hero_Of_Moga Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 16:28

    This is getting ridiculous. Now other people (even the producer of the game) have seen this article and are tying the opinion to ONM, with negative feedback. Good job, Rooke.


    yes 360+ posts is ridiculous, time for a new title for the topic I think (see above). just give it a rest all of you, while I morally diagree with perverted games, I think you should all stop as ONM is getting seriously bad press and I (and probably others too) don't wan't ONM to get a bad reputation, especially as it's reputation is pretty good.

  363. KaiWeinefelt Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 16:44

    British store Zavvi:

    http://i.imgur.com/8FJCPwz.jpg

    And Zen United hasn't even announced the limited edition bundle yet. :-)

  364. MatthewONM Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 16:48

    [I think you should all stop as ONM is getting seriously bad press and I (and probably others too) don't wan't ONM to get a bad reputation, especially as it's reputation is pretty good.


    Don't worry about us - we're perfectly fine. In fact, we're interviewing the team behind Senran Kagura in the next issue - that tweet from the director has been blown way out of proportion.

  365. KaiWeinefelt Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 16:51

    [I think you should all stop as ONM is getting seriously bad press and I (and probably others too) don't wan't ONM to get a bad reputation, especially as it's reputation is pretty good.


    Don't worry about us - we're perfectly fine. In fact, we're interviewing the team behind Senran Kagura in the next issue - that tweet from the director has been blown way out of proportion.

    Wow, you mean the Japanese development team at Tamsoft? :o

    Well, I think that suits the blog perfectly then - something being blown way out of proportion...

  366. Hero_Of_Moga Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 16:52

    [I think you should all stop as ONM is getting seriously bad press and I (and probably others too) don't wan't ONM to get a bad reputation, especially as it's reputation is pretty good.


    Don't worry about us - we're perfectly fine. In fact, we're interviewing the team behind Senran Kagura in the next issue - that tweet from the director has been blown way out of proportion.


    Glad to hear :)

  367. Yirba Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 16:56

    [I think you should all stop as ONM is getting seriously bad press and I (and probably others too) don't wan't ONM to get a bad reputation, especially as it's reputation is pretty good.


    Don't worry about us - we're perfectly fine. In fact, we're interviewing the team behind Senran Kagura in the next issue - that tweet from the director has been blown way out of proportion.


    Awesome! I might actually buy ONM for the first time in years just for that. :-P

  368. MatthewONM Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 16:59

    Awesome! I might actually buy ONM for the first time in years just for that. :-P


    Well, if you read the magazine you'd know that we've been doing a lot more coverage of Japanese games these last year - it's something I'm personally very interested in. Struck me as odd when you said ONM hasn't topped issue 20, as we've done more Japanese game coverage than practically any magazine on the shop shelves.

  369. Yirba Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 17:06

    Oh really? I stopped reading a couple of years back, but if coverage of Japanese games has increased, then great! I always found that NGamer (or Nintendo Gamer as it later became known as) would tend to have better coverage of slightly more obscure Japanese games though, so I started becoming more in favour of that magazine until publication stopped.

  370. Fubz Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 17:28

    Oh really? I stopped reading a couple of years back, but if coverage of Japanese games has increased, then great! I always found that NGamer (or Nintendo Gamer as it later became known as) would tend to have better coverage of slightly more obscure Japanese games though, so I started becoming more in favour of that magazine until publication stopped.


    Yeah, there's hardly much to cover nowadays it seems so I'm guessing you'll see a lot more obscure games getting in the magazine.

  371. HoY4 Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 19:44

    LOL what a Loser whoever wrote this. I have this game and it's awesome and I'm not Japanese. Take that it's #1 on eShop, if I bought it, played it and liked it, why the hell would I want it to 'stop'!? "damage the industry" oh please, give me a break.

  372. Rastamau5 Wednesday 22nd Jan 2014 at 22:11

    http://puu.sh/6uuHU.gif

  373. Maxz Thursday 23rd Jan 2014 at 00:31

    it's fiction too, but uses real people

    ...

    Fin.

  374. ProtoRobo Thursday 23rd Jan 2014 at 00:37

    it's fiction too, but uses real people

    ...

    Fin.


    So is Star Wars real too? I thought it was just a film, but it has real people in it, so I guess it must be real!

    I'll be looking to get my X-Wing license now, BRB.

  375. KaiWeinefelt Thursday 23rd Jan 2014 at 06:22

    it's fiction too, but uses real people

    ...

    Fin.

    It doesn't matter if fiction uses real people, as long as no one was hurt during production. There are movies which romanticize murderers, where people - at the moment they watch the movie - wish they could be that bad guy and let their imagination run free. I mean, just look at Darth Vader from Star Wars. You can hardly say he was a good guy in Episode IV-VI, yet I don't know how many people who wanted to be him because he was so cool. He killed people in the movies, and he only did it for power.

    Should we restrict what directors and writers should put in movies because a few idiots around the world think they can live the Star Wars saga IRL, build their own light sabers and slice people they don't like in half?

    Or look at another movie - Adrian Lyne's version of Lolita. The girl who played the role of Lolita - Dominque Swain - was only 15 years old at the time they shot it. Yet there were several intense kissing scenes between her and Jeremy Irons (who plays the pedophile Humber Humbert) who is an adult. There were even scenes of implied sex. But it was all just fiction, and not real.

    This whole blog and topic comes down to extreme feminism, and those people who want things which don't resonate with their own ideals and values to be forbidden for EVERYONE. If you're a feminist and don't like the way these (according to some western definitions) underaged girls are sexualized, you can use your power as a consumer to not buy it, to show your dislike for it. But when you write an aggressive blog, which is published by ONM, not only telling everyone not to buy it, but also claim that the game is actually harmful to the whole industry and to women who don't even play games - then we're way beyond just stating your opinion about something.

  376. jimbob555 Thursday 23rd Jan 2014 at 09:59

    http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o272/OrangeRakoon/edginess_zpsa544a067.png~original

    can this picture be applied to this thread as well?

  377. KaiWeinefelt Thursday 23rd Jan 2014 at 17:23

    The pre-order bonus has been revealed:

    https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/1013716_400759426726997_835296560_n.jpg

    Full image:

    https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 6560_n.jpg

    It's unclear if it's only for the UK though, or for all of Europe.

  378. Yirba Thursday 23rd Jan 2014 at 19:34

    Is this the right page to buy it from?: http://www.game.co.uk/en/senran-kagura-282439
    It doesn't say anything about any preorder bonus, and the link on the Senran Kagura Facebook page is broken for me.

  379. Jarmez Thursday 23rd Jan 2014 at 20:41

    W-wow this article and the comments... I don't even...

  380. KaiWeinefelt Thursday 23rd Jan 2014 at 21:29