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Senran Kagura Burst review

Listen up: we've something we want to get off our chests

As one of God's chosen 'beautiful people', this writer knows the pain of being judged on looks alone. Analysis of the latest Mario game falls on deaf ears because power is being diverted to the eyes. Senran Kagura Burst is similarly cursed. So busy are gamers ogling/getting angry about the heroines' inflated proportions that they don't notice the attached arms and legs doing painful things to waves of incoming ninjas.

Strip away the surface - and trust us, the game does - and you'll find a brawler in the vein of Streets Of Rage. Blandly linear corridors flood with goons for you to hurt until a little arrow permits you to move onto the next huddle. The deadly rivals of Hanzo and Hajibo Academy (the game offers two parallel story modes) pack slightly more nuanced movesets than Sega's thugs, however. Attack chains are the order of the day, with emphasis on batting opponents into the air where 'aerial raves' regularly push combos into the triple figures.

Click to view larger image
It's not particularly deep. The short movelist and overpowered nature of aerial raves tends to give every fight the same up/down rhythm. That's okay, though, because, like Dynasty Warriors, there's something soothingly hypnotic about mindlessly mashing a combo meter into the thousands. And like the Warriors games, there's enough to differentiate the handful of fighters to ward off repetition. It's just a shame that, like Samurai Warriors on 3DS, the game is also blighted by some wicked framerate stutters.

For all they're paraded as busty dress-up dolls - an extensive costume gallery unlocks over time - the girls manage to resist their seedy roles with strong action personalities. Ikaruga's katana, for example, gives her the range to sweep five or six goons skywards, but she's quite sluggish with it. Switch to martial artist, Katsuragi, and fingers instantly feel the burst of speed, as she paffs ninjas into the air with a fervour that would give Asterix goosebumps. With no fewer than 12 characters across the two six-hour campaigns there's a surprising range of styles to enjoy.

Click to view larger image
If the roster is well balanced, the same cannot be said of its stars, each burdened with carrying two bowling balls in their front pockets. For all the hoo-ha around the subject, these 'assets' are rarely exploited. Yes, clothes shred as damage is accumulated. Tee hee hee. And you can opt to strip your heroine to her pants to take on a level doing twice the damage and having half the health. Snigger snigger. But the slightly boring truth is, the camera is too distant, and character models too rough, to see any cheeky bits.

If the director, as he claims, set out to make a game dedicated to 3D anatomy, he's failed. All his busty bluster disguises a bit of a softy, one that dishes out a saccharine tale of friendship and social acceptance, told in visual novel extracts. Some rather risqué images are involved, but only if you look around the twee writing up front. The notion of sad horndogs picking up the game for some titillation and having to trawl through off-cuts from a bad Judy Blume novel to get there is pretty hilarious.

Senran Kagura Burst's beauty isn't skin deep. If anything, it's skin buried: there's potential for an action gem in here, drowning in digital flesh.

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  1. Kittens. Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 17:23
  2. Wrathy Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 17:47

    Mediocre vapid game relies on sex and controversy for more sales than it would otherwise be blessed enough to receive. The capitalist heteropatriarchy wins again.

  3. Captain Kuchiki Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 18:06

    This is really proving to be a Marmite game, as I was so impressed with it, I gave it an 8.5 (I never found it repetitive due to the increasing difficulty). I also found the campaigns to be a lot longer than 6 hours each (my playtime when finishing the Hanzo side was over 20 hours)...did you guys do all of each chapter's missions to earn the "completed" stamps, or did you just do the ones required to advance through the story?

    But then again, I like Marmite as well.

  4. Pyri80 Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 18:38

    (...) The capitalist heteropatriarchy wins again.

    The capitalist heteropatriarchy is winning by declaring how (female) bodies should be (re)presented in media and what social norms of sexuality and/or exposed body types are therefore not acceptable. That others cannot and should not express their sexuality.
    It may come to a surprise to you, but even as a handicapped person I don't consider myself a lesser human being, less worth than others. Yet it's interesting that, with this magazine and its editors, Nintendo of Europe is obviously willing to endorse such discrimination.

  5. King Slazo Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 18:50

    Mediocre vapid game relies on sex and controversy for more sales than it would otherwise be blessed enough to receive. The capitalist heteropatriarchy wins again.

    One day weeaboo culture won't revolve around using titilation to sell to the depraved. One day.

  6. SamuriFerret Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 19:28

    Mediocre vapid game relies on sex and controversy for more sales than it would otherwise be blessed enough to receive. The capitalist heteropatriarchy wins again.

    One day weeaboo culture won't revolve around using titilation to sell to the depraved. One day.

    Western Animation: 1
    Anime: 0

    Step it up, senpai

    http://www.toastersix.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Tangled_Rapunzel.jpg

  7. jimbob555 Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 19:30

    https://24.media.tumblr.com/d6f53aa8ddf2900e96d8dc1b6aabebcc/tumblr_n1oxyjmggZ1qc7cmzo1_400.gif

  8. Wrathy Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 19:48

    (...) The capitalist heteropatriarchy wins again.

    The capitalist heteropatriarchy is winning by declaring how (female) bodies should be (re)presented in media and what social norms of sexuality and/or exposed body types are therefore not acceptable. That others cannot and should not express their sexuality.
    It may come to a surprise to you, but even as a handicapped person I don't consider myself a lesser human being, less worth than others. Yet it's interesting that, with this magazine and its editors, Nintendo of Europe is obviously willing to endorse such discrimination.

    I have no idea what your point is, but my entire point is that money made based on the exploitation of people or overly sexualised and damagingly oppressive representations thereof is not money made through a system that I'm willing to support. The system is what creates and perpetuates inequality and leads directly to the oppression of non male non straight non etc people. The system is failing the majority of the population.

  9. geengy Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 19:52

    I remember I was the first poster for the Miiverse community. Nothing to be proud of...shortly after, someone has aleady drawn a set of naked breasts.

    Ogodswhathavewecometo

  10. TheVelvetRoom Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 19:57

    I have no idea what your point is, but my entire point is that money made based on the exploitation of people or overly sexualised and damagingly oppressive representations thereof is not money made through a system that I'm willing to support. The system is what creates and perpetuates inequality and leads directly to the oppression of non male non straight non etc people. The system is failing the majority of the population.

    I could understand if you were talking about porn as a whole, but this is just a game about silly cartoons with big boobies. SK is still very much a niche game, and it's really nothing to be too concerned about compared to other vastly more popular media created and successful in the West and possessing far more damaging content. The internet at large has been giving this game way too much heat for what it is.

  11. Wrathy Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 20:18

    I have no idea what your point is, but my entire point is that money made based on the exploitation of people or overly sexualised and damagingly oppressive representations thereof is not money made through a system that I'm willing to support. The system is what creates and perpetuates inequality and leads directly to the oppression of non male non straight non etc people. The system is failing the majority of the population.

    I could understand if you were talking about porn as a whole, but this is just a game about silly cartoons with big boobies. SK is still very much a niche game, and it's really nothing to be too concerned about compared to other vastly more popular media created and successful in the West and possessing far more damaging content. The internet at large has been giving this game way too much heat for what it is.

    I'd argue against you, but to be honest the last thread sort of destroyed my will to live, so I'm just going to agree to disagree.

  12. TaliTundie Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 20:34

    And this is why Nintendo will forever always be deemed a children platform.

    Stick to Mario and Pokemon while we play a wider range of games with an open mind.

    You Nintendo dudes could never have a GTA V without some parental complain issues far beyond normal.
    You got stupid ass dudes writing articles when that Dr.who Pokemon MOOSE hadn't played the game.

    I mean if hes a Homosexual then cool, but that doesn't mean to bark out to not buy the game.

    I wanted this game for almost two years and Japan's games tend to be alot of fun.
    Gameplay wise I'd say it's a 7.

    Funny how the vita SK has no complaints
    Funny how it's coming from the Nintendo community though.

    I love Nintendo man but damn, you can't have MOOSE without some crying somewhere

  13. King Slazo Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 20:37

    Because nobody complained about Dragon's Crown, right? :roll:

  14. LFF Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 20:39

    And this is why Nintendo will forever always be deemed a children platform.

    Is that a platform on which children stand or a platform made out of children?

  15. TaliTundie Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 20:44

    And this is why Nintendo will forever always be deemed a children platform.

    Is that a platform on which children stand or a platform made out of children?

    Both Sadly, It never used to be this way that's the sad bit, but ever since the Wii, there has been a huge change which has been shown with the software, systems and the marketing, audience and this is one of the contributing factors to the Wii U's lack of 3rd party.

    Now Nintendo has been left with a kiddy image which they seem to be trying to get rid of, but it's not working, I'm sorry Nintendo fans but it is what it is.

  16. D.J Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 20:51

    It never used to be this way that's the sad bit, but ever since the Wii, there has been a huge change which has been shown with the software, systems and the marketing, audience and this is one of the contributing factors to the Wii U's lack of 3rd party.

    Now Nintendo has been left with a kiddy image which they seem to be trying to get rid of, but it's not working, I'm sorry Nintendo fans but it is what it is.

    People used to bang on about Nintendo having a kiddy image 15 years ago, it's nothing new.

  17. TaliTundie Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 20:57

    It never used to be this way that's the sad bit, but ever since the Wii, there has been a huge change which has been shown with the software, systems and the marketing, audience and this is one of the contributing factors to the Wii U's lack of 3rd party.

    Now Nintendo has been left with a kiddy image which they seem to be trying to get rid of, but it's not working, I'm sorry Nintendo fans but it is what it is.

    People used to bang on about Nintendo having a kiddy image 15 years ago, it's nothing new.

    Why wasn't I hearing it, Nintendo only really fell back on the scene because of hardware limitations, Gamecube limited disc base and Cart based storage, like I was saying, it wasn't so sad, but now...

    and if people have been for so long then there is clearly truth behind it, just how XBOX is claimed a FPS system, there is also truth behind that too

  18. Captain Kuchiki Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 20:58

    Here's a point I want to raise: How come people on the internet get in such a tizzy over a couple of digitised boobs, yet we jump in praise when games like Call of Duty and Ninja Gaiden 3 are released on the Wii U, which feature frankly, grotesque ultra-violence - something which the industry sees on a day to day basis? Nintendo UK's official website refuses to show the box art of this game or screenshots depicting anything other than fully clothed combat, but it will readily show Ryu Hayabusa bloodily impaling people and the like. When did something that comes natural to humans - breasts (well, for women) and sexual desire become any worse than something unnatural like mutilation?

    I have no idea what your point is, but my entire point is that money made based on the exploitation of people or overly sexualised and damagingly oppressive representations thereof is not money made through a system that I'm willing to support. The system is what creates and perpetuates inequality and leads directly to the oppression of non male non straight non etc people. The system is failing the majority of the population.


    I hate to sound rude but I do have to ask this - have you actually played the game?

    I have to ask because you clearly don't seem to know how the characters are depicted outside of trailers and brief teasers. Does this game have fanservice? Yes, yes it does. Is it exploitive? Hell no. The level of sexualisation in this game is no different to Dead or Alive and hell, the dialogue seen in the brief clips of Bayonetta 2 is far more risqué than anything in this game (yet when are we going to decry Bayonetta 2?). The fanservice in this game also serves one purpose - humour. I said this in my review of the game, but the only people who would be seriously drooling over the character designs of Senran Kagura would be chiropractors - and for different reasons. In fact, in response to your comment about the game somehow having a message about what bodies should look like:

    There is a character in Senran Kagura called Mirai. She is notably flat chested and does feel depressed when she has communal baths with her peers (which is common in Japan) and notices that they are significantly more well endowed than her and because of that and the fact that she wears cute bear panties, she assumes that they'll only treat her like a child as a result of it. Do you know how her friends respond? They tell her that the size of her bust doesn't matter, that she is perfectly fine the way she is and in a show of solidarity, all of her peers reveal that they themselves, the seniors she looked up to and thought were so strong and cool, also liked things like cute pyjamas and other embarrassing things and telling them that there is no junior/senior relationship - only that of equals. Here's a quote:
    "Your appearance is a childish concern. It has no bearing on your strength as a shinobi...You shouldn't be embarrassed because of your bust size or panties". This makes Mirai realise that they weren't actually treating her like a child - that her own self-doubts about her appearance was making her project that image onto them and herself.
    And guess what? They're meant to be the "Bad Shinobi" of the game!

    In the game's story, each of the characters have their own backstories, their own reasons for wanting to be shinobi, their own hurdles they must climb over - they are far more developed and treated with more humanity than the majority of characters in recent games. They are never put in any exploitive situations - the fanservice is strictly limited to the gameplay. What the story does give us however, is a touching insight of what happens when two opposing sides come together and realise that deep down, despite their different perceptions of light and dark, that they are both people.

    A part of me honestly wishes this game didn't have so much fanservice - not because of any view of it being right or wrong, but because people who haven't even played the game judging it on message boards and in the media has completely taken the focus away from the other, better parts of the game. This is one quote from the game that has really stuck with me and I still think about it to this day:
    "While the light favours few, the dark accepts all"

    I really wish people would get off their damn high horses and let those who want to enjoy the game enjoy it. If you don't like the game, don't buy it. It's that simple.

    And lastly, let's remember this gem from Katsuragi:
    "You know, I kinda prefer flirting with girls to actual romance with guys."
    Would you look at that? a non-heterosexual character.

  19. D.J Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 21:02

    Why wasn't I hearing it

    According to your profile, you were 4 years old at the time so that probably goes some way towards an explanation.

    Nintendo only really fell back on the scene because of hardware limitations, Gamecube limited disc base and Cart based storage, like I was saying, it wasn't so sad, but now...

    The Gamecube could run games from that generation just as well as it's competitors, there were no hardware limitation issues until the Wii came out. This was when Nintendo decided not to move forward with the then next gen, and instead go for previous gen hardware with added motion detection.

    and if people have been for so long then there is clearly truth behind it

    There was a time when all consoles and games had a kiddy image, it was only when the PS1 arrived that a console started being marketed at an older audience.

  20. bringmelights Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 21:05

    I agree with Captain Kuchiki, I've never understood the negative attitude towards sex in games whilst killing people is considered perfectly normal in comparison.

  21. Switzerninmaster Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 21:21

    I've refrained from speaking up on the topic, but reading Captain Kuchiki's post and I think it really hits the nail on the head. Nice job summarising thoughts on the game, most people haven't even played the game so I'm not particularly sure how they appear to have a full understanding of what the game is about.

  22. jimbob555 Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 21:47

    lol you guys

    you sure did pwn wraffy xP

  23. jdofthefunk Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 21:51

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE&feature=kp

    You hit the nail on the head, but I really hope things don't develop into another 400 comment debate.

  24. TaliTundie Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 21:54


    There was a time when all consoles and games had a kiddy image, it was only when the PS1 arrived that a console started being marketed at an older audience.

    My browser TRUFFLES up on me and I'm not retyping what I was typing! (I hope I don't get banned for that, gotta keep these threads tidy for the kids that might show up)

    Anyway, N64 using carts compared to CD's is a hardware limitation and that system had more power than the PSX, making a design that takes small discs and has limited space compared to it's competition is also a hardware limitation in itself it doesn't matter if a machine is more powerful when your version of a game needs to be significantly downgraded to fit.

    Only a Nintendo Homosexual would try and defend that, just saying

  25. garywood Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 22:17

    I have no idea what your point is, but my entire point is that money made based on the exploitation of people or overly sexualised and damagingly oppressive representations thereof is not money made through a system that I'm willing to support. The system is what creates and perpetuates inequality and leads directly to the oppression of non male non straight non etc people. The system is failing the majority of the population.

    If there's just a clear biological difference between men and women such that men like this sort of thing whereas women don't, there's really not much you can do about it (or should).
    I propose that someone makes a game with bouncing penises. A simple test. If it sells, continue to make more. If it doesn't, the feminists just have to accept it as a fact of life and spend time on problems that can be fixed.

  26. Komodo_Wolfgang Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 23:23

    Mediocre vapid game relies on sex and controversy for more sales than it would otherwise be blessed enough to receive. The capitalist heteropatriarchy wins again.

    One day weeaboo culture won't revolve around using titilation to sell to the depraved. One day.

    I SEE WHAT YOU DID THAR ;D

  27. Maxz Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 23:43

    "GUYS THER IS RESERCH BY SIENTISTS THAT PROOF I AM NOT HORIBLE SEXIST GUY!" :shock:

  28. bringmelights Friday 28th Feb 2014 at 23:51

    "GUYS THER IS RESERCH BY SIENTISTS THAT PROOF I AM NOT HORIBLE SEXIST GUY!" :shock:

    You don't need scientists to discover that men love breasts :wink:

  29. Wrathy Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 00:14

    But apparently you do need a feminist to tell you you're wrong.

    Repeatedly.

    Until, maybe, just maybe, the message gets through.

    I kind of swore I wouldn't put myself through this again but


    If there's just a clear biological difference between men and women such that men like this sort of thing whereas women don't, there's really not much you can do about it (or should).
    I propose that someone makes a game with bouncing penises. A simple test. If it sells, continue to make more. If it doesn't, the feminists just have to accept it as a fact of life and spend time on problems that can be fixed.

    "men like it and women don't. There's not much you can do about it"

    an argument that is literally used to justify rape. Like, yesterday. I literally watched a discussion based on thinking which was exactly like this. Men are owed sex by women even if she doesn't want it because the man likes it. I'm amazed that I even have to explain this. The logic in this sort of statement is simply non-existent and the entitlement is staggering. This is just a disgusting attitude to life and I feel immensely sorry for anybody who actually knows you.

    lol you guys

    you sure did pwn wraffy xP

    Yeah, getting me to want to bang my head off the wall and eat ice cream all night is such an achievement, grats lads


    I hate to sound rude but I do have to ask this - have you actually played the game?

    I have to ask because you clearly don't seem to know how the characters are depicted outside of trailers and brief teasers. Does this game have fanservice? Yes, yes it does.

    This is kind of irrelevant, though. I hate to sound rude, but I don't watch porn because I find it physically and socially repulsive. The same attitude is extended here. The fact that the game relies on fan service and harmful representations is entirely the problem. It doesn't need to be justified or explained because the fact that it exists in the first place is the problem.

    no different to Dead or Alive

    Implying I don't also have a problem with that... yeah here's a tip I am consistent in my belief that selling games or things like them to men which exploit women based on their physical characteristics is wrong and should be challenged.

    A part of me honestly wishes this game didn't have so much fanservice - not because of any view of it being right or wrong, but because people who haven't even played the game judging it on message boards and in the media has completely taken the focus away from the other, better parts of the game. This is one quote from the game that has really stuck with me and I still think about it to this day

    While the story surely isn't as awful as the graphics, lets be honest - if you're buying this game for the sexualised aspects of it, you're going to gloss over any scraps of a positive message within.


    A part of me honestly wishes this game didn't have so much fanservice - not because of any view of it being right or wrong, but because people who haven't even played the game judging it on message boards and in the media has completely taken the focus away from the other, better parts of the game.

    And if the game didn't have the fan service and had properly clothed and realistic representations of women I'm fairly sure nobody would have even heard of or played it, it wouldnt have been translated, and we'd all be a lot happier. But here we are.

    I really wish people would get off their damn high horses and let those who want to enjoy the game enjoy it. If you don't like the game, don't buy it. It's that simple.

    That's not really how challenging social norms and normative things which are offensive to lower the chances of future marginalisation of people works... I'll let you figure out why.


    And lastly, let's remember this gem from Katsuragi:
    "You know, I kinda prefer flirting with girls to actual romance with guys."
    Would you look at that? a non-heterosexual character.

    Would you look at that? Heteronormative writing implying that lesbian relationships are just "flirting" and heterosexual relationships are the only thing that qualifies for "actual romance." Such equality. Such liberation. Such representation! How wrong I was!

  30. 3try Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 00:39

    The games aimed at a niche market, can't they just enjoy their games in peace without feminists that liking tits is wrong.

  31. Wrathy Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 00:40

    no.

  32. Captain Kuchiki Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 00:59


    I hate to sound rude but I do have to ask this - have you actually played the game?

    I have to ask because you clearly don't seem to know how the characters are depicted outside of trailers and brief teasers. Does this game have fanservice? Yes, yes it does.

    This is kind of irrelevant, though. I hate to sound rude, but I don't watch porn because I find it physically and socially repulsive. The same attitude is extended here. The fact that the game relies on fan service and harmful representations is entirely the problem. It doesn't need to be justified or explained because the fact that it exists in the first place is the problem.


    Except it is relevant - because you're criticising something you clearly know frankly, jack about. I wouldn't walk into a discussion about a TV show or quantum physics and pretend to know what I'm talking about. You say the representations are harmful but again, that just shows how naive you are when it comes to this game - I noticed that you chose to completely ignore my comments about Mirai (I'm pretty sure anyone who has played the game will be laughing at the irony of that - as Mirai hates to be ignored xD).

    Also, you mention "porn" - although this is probably of no consequence - you do know that the characters only get reduced to their underwear (which is customisable, so you can actually use a traditional Japanese school swimsuit to cover them up), so the most people see is girls in bikinis? Nothing you wouldn't see at the beach.

    no different to Dead or Alive

    Implying I don't also have a problem with that... yeah here's a tip I am consistent in my belief that selling games or things like them to men which exploit women based on their physical characteristics is wrong and should be challenged.


    I'm saying it because although eyebrows tend to get raised about Dead or Alive every now and then, I fail to remember such a big stink about Dead or Alive Dimensions. Is it because the 3DS was struggling back then and it needed games, or that Dead or Alive is a more established franchise? Why is no one crying out about Bayonetta 2 now? Is it because of the Wii U's dire situation and because it's a game that could draw in the precious "hardcores"? The brief teasers of Bayonetta 2 we've seen so far have been far more risqué than this game.

    A part of me honestly wishes this game didn't have so much fanservice - not because of any view of it being right or wrong, but because people who haven't even played the game judging it on message boards and in the media has completely taken the focus away from the other, better parts of the game. This is one quote from the game that has really stuck with me and I still think about it to this day

    While the story surely isn't as awful as the graphics, lets be honest - if you're buying this game for the sexualised aspects of it, you're going to gloss over any scraps of a positive message within.


    Let's just generalise everybody who might want to buy the game shall we? Because that's productive.


    A part of me honestly wishes this game didn't have so much fanservice - not because of any view of it being right or wrong, but because people who haven't even played the game judging it on message boards and in the media has completely taken the focus away from the other, better parts of the game.

    And if the game didn't have the fan service and had properly clothed and realistic representations of women I'm fairly sure nobody would have even heard of or played it, it wouldnt have been translated, and we'd all be a lot happier. But here we are.


    Provide me with evidence to suggest that or take these baseless assumptions and kindly keep them to yourself.

    I really wish people would get off their damn high horses and let those who want to enjoy the game enjoy it. If you don't like the game, don't buy it. It's that simple.

    That's not really how challenging social norms and normative things which are offensive to lower the chances of future marginalisation of people works... I'll let you figure out why.


    Earlier you said that this game might not have entered anyone's radar if not for the fanservice - conversely, thing game would have been ignored by the western fandom at large if not for a certain blog post put on this site a few weeks ago that drew attention to it. When such sweeping statements are made and attention is drawn to something, it is a double edged sword and that blog post proven it - Senran Kagura Burst saw a huge boost in pre-orders. In normal social situations, sure, rise up. In the case of a product though? If it was going to be obscure from the outset, wouldn't the best thing to do be to let it fall into obscurity, with low sales prompting no similar games to be made?


    And lastly, let's remember this gem from Katsuragi:
    "You know, I kinda prefer flirting with girls to actual romance with guys."
    Would you look at that? a non-heterosexual character.

    Would you look at that? Heteronormative writing implying that lesbian relationships are just "flirting" and heterosexual relationships are the only thing that qualifies for "actual romance." Such equality. Such liberation. Such representation! How wrong I was!
    And again with the sweeping statements that show you have no idea about what you're talking about. I probably should have explained the context, but here it is:
    On her way to school, a male student confessed his love to Asuka. She was taken aback and spoke to her classmates about it, which caused the others to think about relationships. Katsuragi by nature is the playful type and often likes to tease her classmates. This is basically her rejecting the notion of romance with a guy in favour of what she already has, which is a bit of teasing her and there that doesn't get too serious. Would she want to go into a full on relationship with another woman? We don't know as it wasn't really explored (most of Katsuragi's story is focused on how she was abandoned by her parents as a younger, because they had failed a mission and chose to flee and become rogue ninja instead of committing suicide, which was expected of shinobi - leaving their daughter to protect her in case anyone went after them. Probably not the best example of parenting). Is it something I would like to see explored? Definitely.

    I'm not saying that your opinion isn't justified - I won't be like other people and try to belittle feminism because in the wider world out there, it does have a place. Yes, the main promoted feature of this game is big breasted girls having their clothes torn off in battle (I really wish the distributor would advertise the other aspects of the game, because as I've explained before, there really is more to it). If you are offended by the content, then you have to right be and to say so - but what I am saying is that if you wish to talk critically about something, do your research.

    This game initially caught my attention months ago mainly because I like anime and I like niche Japanese games, but I honestly thought it was going to be mediocre at best. Following all the debates that erupted in the run-up to its European release I decided to hold my tongue until I had had a chance to play the game for myself and I am honestly glad I did - because I was truly touched by the story, by the struggle between two sides, their philosophies and how they got between people who honestly, would have been the best of friends in any other circumstances. When I play the game, do I look at the big jiggling boobs and get turned on? No! It's just silly humour, which does show a culture cap between the East and the West in that they are more comfortable using things like that for comedy.

  33. bringmelights Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 01:03

    "men like it and women don't. There's not much you can do about it"

    an argument that is literally used to justify rape. Like, yesterday. I literally watched a discussion based on thinking which was exactly like this. Men are owed sex by women even if she doesn't want it because the man likes it. I'm amazed that I even have to explain this. The logic in this sort of statement is simply non-existent and the entitlement is staggering. This is just a disgusting attitude to life and I feel immensely sorry for anybody who actually knows you.

    Well he has a point. The majority of men find female bodies attractive but don't find male bodies sexually attractive. The same applies on the other side, the majority of women find men more attractive than other women. That is literally a fact that will not change.

    I have no idea how you came to justifying rape as a conclusion from that. That is possibly one of the greatest straw man arguments I've ever seen.

  34. Wrathy Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 01:32

    Except it is relevant - because you're criticising something you clearly know frankly, jack about. I wouldn't walk into a discussion about a TV show or quantum physics and pretend to know what I'm talking about. You say the representations are harmful but again, that just shows how naive you are when it comes to this game - I noticed that you chose to completely ignore my comments about Mirai.

    There's only so much you need to know about societal representations to see that it quite clearly is not empowering for women, which is harmful to women and therefore needs to be challenged. And I already conceded that point; I'll repeat it for you, though:

    While the story surely isn't as awful as the graphics, lets be honest - if you're buying this game for the sexualised aspects of it, you're going to gloss over any scraps of a positive message within.

    Also, you mention "porn" - although this is probably of no consequence - you do know that the characters only get reduced to their underwear (which is customisable, so you can actually use a traditional Japanese school swimsuit to cover them up), so the most people see is girls in bikinis? Nothing you wouldn't see at the beach.

    Pornographic representations do not need to be bare naked representations of PIV sex. Hence the whole "soft core", "erotica" sort of markets. Porn is not limited to explicit videos.

    I'm saying it because although eyebrows tend to get raised about Dead or Alive every now and then, I fail to remember such a big stink about Dead or Alive Dimensions. Is it because the 3DS was struggling back then and it needed games, or that Dead or Alive is a more established franchise? Why is no one crying out about Bayonetta 2 now? Is it because of the Wii U's dire situation and because it's a game that could draw in the precious "hardcores"? The brief teasers of Bayonetta 2 we've seen so far have been far more risqué than this game.

    I can only speak for myself, but I've only really become properly interested in feminism in the past year. Nothing to do with the context of the Wii U or the 3DS or Nintendo having to slash forecasts. Can't speak for the industry as whole.

    Let's just generalise everybody who might want to buy the game shall we? Because that's productive.

    if you're buying this game for the sexualised aspects of it, you're going to gloss over any scraps of a positive message within.

    If

    Provide me with evidence to suggest that or take these baseless assumptions and kindly keep them to yourself.

    A part of me honestly wishes this game didn't have so much fanservice - not because of any view of it being right or wrong, but because people who haven't even played the game judging it on message boards and in the media has completely taken the focus away from the other, better parts of the game.

    You're the one speculating about a possible version of this game that didn't make me so irritated that I felt the need to post on a nintendo magazine forum at 1:18am (at time of typing) about how strongly I'm not buying it. With my "baseless assumptions" I'm just reacting to your own thought experiment and suggesting what the implications of a more vanilla version of this game would be. By its very nature as a divergent timeline, neither of us can provide evidence of what would have happened.

    If it was going to be obscure from the outset, wouldn't the best thing to do be to let it fall into obscurity, with low sales prompting no similar games to be made?

    See above tbh. We can't give any evidence to support our assumptions about possible worlds. I'd probably agree with you, though. I'd not know about this game if I hadn't been sent to the comment thread on said blog post by friends who know how much I can get wound up about these things. :p

    Yes, the main promoted feature of this game is big breasted girls having their clothes torn off in battle (I really wish the distributor would advertise the other aspects of the game, because as I've explained before, there really is more to it). If you are offended by the content, then you have to right be and to say so

    Isn't it possible, then, that my comments are still valid because of the deliberate way the game has been marketed to appeal to the sexualised, misogynistic weeaboo market at large, which is at its very core the same problem that I've been arguing against? That the capitalist heteropatriarchy walks away laughing because of the sales generated by this game's controversial reputation, which definitely triggered sales (I remember comments in the previous thread to the effect of "i'm literally buying this game purely to annoy feminists", for example) that it wouldnt have otherwise gained?

    The story and whatever is in the actual game is not the problem, and almost certainly never has been. It's the exploitation of women and the depictions of them which appeal to men who find that sort of thing erotic - a bit like defending playboy "for the articles", it's the culture that surrounds it which is really the problem.


    Well he has a point. The majority of men find female bodies attractive but don't find male bodies sexually attractive. The same applies on the other side, the majority of women find men more attractive than other women. That is literally a fact that will not change.

    I have no idea how you came to justifying rape as a conclusion from that. That is possibly one of the greatest straw man arguments I've ever seen.

    Socialisation has an interesting and largely unexplored role in relationships, but for fear of advocating political lesbian separatism and annoying the people who think these qualities are innate I'm going to skip around that point.

    My point was more that "men like it and women don't" is used to justify sex when he wants it and she doesn't. I said it was an argument that is used transferrable and interchangeably by men when things don't go entirely their way to silence women. Including, yes, rape. Because unless there's a choice made free of duress in which both partners freely consent with full knowledge of both the intent and outcome, then... guess what? It's rape. But hey, write it off as a straw man if you want. I'm sure you have plenty of experience of how sex is used against women, after all. :)

  35. Maxz Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 01:54

    lol you guys

    you sure did pwn wraffy xP

    He's still correct. Pwned or otherwise.

    (?´??)?

  36. Captain Kuchiki Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 02:01

    There's only so much you need to know about societal representations to see that it quite clearly is not empowering for women, which is harmful to women and therefore needs to be challenged. And I already conceded that point; I'll repeat it for you, though


    Do you remember the phrase "Don't judge a book by its cover"?
    As for your suggestion that people will gloss over the story - the very fact that I'm here talking about it is evidence to the contrary - I don't give a damn about any of the bouncy boobs in this game, I love it for the engrossing story that offers a beautifully touching view of the comparisons between light and dark and the addictive, yet simply hack and slash gameplay. If this game starred grizzly, muscle-bound lumberjack men I would still love it - because Mirai would still be someone with doubts about their body who is supported by a group of caring friends, Hibari would still be trying to overcome their lack of self-esteem and Yomi would still have donated all of her inheritance to help the less fortunate without a concern about how it will mean she will be reduced to having constantly worrying about her next meal.
    In regards to not being empowering to women? All of these women are tough and determined to do whatever it takes to follow their own paths, even if it means fighting against people they would rather be friends with. Ikaruga was even adopted into a family who made her their heir because she was far more talented than their son and when he even shows up in the story - he gets his ass promptly handed to him with little effort. The only two significant men in the story are 1) A brother angry that he had his place taken away from him who gets his ass kicked and 2) A teacher who stays out of things and keeps his distance in order to allow his students to develop and overcome their challenges themselves, mainly out of his fear of another one of his students dying - as opposed to the female cast who are incredibly strong and display nothing but valiant bravery.

    Isn't it possible, then, that my comments are still valid because of the deliberate way the game has been marketed to appeal to the sexualised, misogynistic weeaboo market at large, which is at its very core the same problem that I've been arguing against? That the capitalist heteropatriarchy walks away laughing because of the sales generated by this game's controversial reputation, which definitely triggered sales (I remember comments in the previous thread to the effect of "i'm literally buying this game purely to annoy feminists", for example) that it wouldnt have otherwise gained?

    The story and whatever is in the actual game is not the problem, and almost certainly never has been. It's the exploitation of women and the depictions of them which appeal to men who find that sort of thing erotic - a bit like defending playboy "for the articles", it's the culture that surrounds it which is really the problem.


    Sex sells - to both men and women. Take a look at the huge success of Fifty Shades of Grey - reproduction is one of the essential components every living being needs, so the majority of people have an innate desire to seek it out. I see this strategy used everywhere in adverts to appeal to all sexes. It's the same reason why Marks & Spencer food adverts are the way they are - because they prey on the carnal desire we have for food.

    You're the one speculating about a possible version of this game that didn't make me so irritated that I felt the need to post on a nintendo magazine forum at 1:18am (at time of typing) about how strongly I'm not buying it.


    If it irritates you so much - just block it out. It's what I do with everything that bugs me in life. We understand your reasoning behind not buying it and that's fine - everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and feelings on matters. All I ask is that you also respect the thoughts and feelings of other people - to let those who do wish to enjoy the game do so, regardless of their reasons for doing so. In the end, it's just a niche video game that will most likely be forgotten in a few months time.

  37. bringmelights Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 02:09

    Socialisation has an interesting and largely unexplored role in relationships, but for fear of advocating political lesbian separatism and annoying the people who think these qualities are innate I'm going to skip around that point.

    My point was more that "men like it and women don't" is used to justify sex when he wants it and she doesn't. I said it was an argument that is used transferrable and interchangeably by men when things don't go entirely their way to silence women. Including, yes, rape. Because unless there's a choice made free of duress in which both partners freely consent with full knowledge of both the intent and outcome, then... guess what? It's rape. But hey, write it off as a straw man if you want. I'm sure you have plenty of experience of how sex is used against women, after all. :)

    Well it is a straw man, because nothing you have said has changed the fact that what garywood has said is completely true. He's not trying to 'silence women', he's just calling it how it is.

    Because unless there's a choice made free of duress in which both partners freely consent with full knowledge of both the intent and outcome, then... guess what? It's rape.

    Well thanks for that captain obvious. I guess you learn something new everyday :roll:

  38. Maxz Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 02:34

    Anyway, this whole debate it silly. It's not a debate, no-one respects it as that; it's too disorganised and spontaneous. And too anonymous. I really don't think internet forums lend themselves to considered, opposed discussion in any context. It's too easy to run away, and there's never a third party to steady things. It's just people butting heads. Imaginary heads.

    I think everyone just wants to punch everybody else in the face for holding such hyper-polarised opinions. But the logistics are a bit hard. So we just spend a supreme amount of time readying our super-articulate, ultra-considered verbal punches. And then the other person decides to not get punched by them anyway.

    That's certainly how I feel. I'm sure I've wanted to punch most of the internet in the face for something or other at some point. Verbal punches have been the next best thing, but they're always a bit unsatisfying. Unlike real punches, you never know how a it's connected, or even if it has at all. They just kind of float away like a bottle out to sea...

    It might be better for everyone if we accepted that we all want to punch each other, but logistically it would be a bit difficult. That might at least be something we all agree on.

  39. Wrathy Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 02:41

    In regards to not being empowering to women? All of these women are tough and determined to do whatever it takes to follow their own paths, even if it means fighting against people they would rather be friends with. as opposed to the female cast who are incredibly strong and display nothing but valiant bravery.

    Yeah but again, because of the way it's been marketed and presented, this content isn't being communicated, which is alienating people who may otherwise benefit from the writing and messages which it presents on that level. Which is harmful to them, and society as a whole, because they are being alienated because of the patriarchy. Which is bad. Etc. I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot here.

    Sex sells - to both men and women. Take a look at the huge success of Fifty Shades of Grey - reproduction is one of the essential components every living being needs, so the majority of people have an innate desire to seek it out. I see this strategy used everywhere in adverts to appeal to all sexes. It's the same reason why Marks & Spencer food adverts are the way they are - because they prey on the carnal desire we have for food.

    I strongly disagree with the "innate desire" to reproduce. I hate biological essentialism which suggests that because your brain / chromosomes / whatever are a certain way, you're going to inevitably do x - it just doesn't make sense, because we're socialised from birth to believe that women are caring mothers and play with baby dolls and stuff, and men are told to raise a family and be the breadwinner or whatever... the cumulative impact of that over decades is just huge, and plays a large part in the normative roles that we assign to people based on their interpreted sex.

    If it irritates you so much - just block it out. It's what I do with everything that bugs me in life. We understand your reasoning behind not buying it and that's fine - everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and feelings on matters. All I ask is that you also respect the thoughts and feelings of other people - to let those who do wish to enjoy the game do so, regardless of their reasons for doing so. In the end, it's just a niche video game that will most likely be forgotten in a few months time.

    I can't block it out. Ignoring everyday sexism, misogyny and patriarchal entitlement is not something I'm willing to overlook because it leads directly to things like the wage gap, the glass ceiling, rape culture, and countless other things which enforce the obscene idea that women are inferior and must stay so. The harm being done by these things is damaging the lives of about half the population. Telling me I should be okay with that is not going to stop me.

    Well it is a straw man, because nothing you have said has changed the fact that what garywood has said is completely true. He's not trying to 'silence women', he's just calling it how it is.

    Thanks for explaining a straw man to me. Maybe next time I'll just find a real man and set him on fire instead. #misandry

  40. bringmelights Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 02:45

    the game has been marketed to appeal to the sexualised, misogynistic weeaboo market at large, which is at its very core the same problem that I've been arguing against?

    As Kuchiki mentions, that pretty much sums up Bayonetta:

    http://elder-geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/bayonetta-butt-800x450.jpg

    http://images.nintendolife.com/news/2013/12/hideki_kamiya_explains_reasoning_for_not_leading_bayonetta_2_development/large.jpg

    Where is the faux outrage about that.

  41. Wrathy Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 02:48

    Probably somewhere between me wanting to wake up tomorrow instead of killing myself and the fact that this thread is about Senran Kagura Burst.

  42. bringmelights Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 02:52

    the fact that this thread is about Senran Kagura Burst.

    So we can expect a "Bayonetta is damaging the industry" clickbait piece at some point before the game's release :P

  43. jimbob555 Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 03:28

    onm doesnt even do clickbait as for some reason the last article pulled in a bunch of attention even though the game is average at best and wraffy is a mod not a writer if you are trying to say she has some sort of control over the articles presented

  44. TheVelvetRoom Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 03:49

    I can't block it out. Ignoring everyday sexism, misogyny and patriarchal entitlement is not something I'm willing to overlook because it leads directly to things like the wage gap, the glass ceiling, rape culture, and countless other things which enforce the obscene idea that women are inferior and must stay so. The harm being done by these things is damaging the lives of about half the population. Telling me I should be okay with that is not going to stop me.

    Jesus Christ, it's a game that'll never sell more than five digits. There are a hundred other things you could be spending your time and words opposing to fight the patriarchy. Sex in media is never going away. It's a desire of too many consumers, and even if things like Senran Kagura end up forbidden from official publishing, other products far scummier will always find their place among whatever seedy corner of the internet they can find. At the end of the day SK is just a silly and fun fantasy game that gratifies its small audience who; let's face it, will probably not be in the presence or hold any influence over too many women. I'm not saying this thing is 100% harmless, but it's so insignificant, yet all the feminist counterattacks against this tiny game are giving it so much more weight than it deserves. Pick your battles, because flipping out over the slightest thing (and in the case of such a niche game, it really is the slightest thing) just does a disservice to your side.

  45. Wrathy Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 04:24

    Given that the last thread on this game was easily the most active we've had for years, I'm not sure that you're on point with the "pick your battles" thing. If I'm going to do feminism on this forum (and you'll know that I don't tend to, because I have Twitter, Tumblr, my degree, my student's union, and various other outlets for it) doing it in high profile, widely visited threads seems to make the most sense.

    In other words, Picking my battles (if you'd read the more recent posts, the analysis sort of shifted to a more general statement on society, rather than the specific game) is something I'm actually pretty good at. This thread makes sense to me and the fact that I'm discussing it with other people and literally tens of other forum users will be reading it without posting says to me that there's really nowhere else I'd rather be. Thanks for the tip, though. :)

  46. TheVelvetRoom Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 06:15

    I just don't see the point in fighting this game so hard. Its audience aren't going to see eye to eye with the perception it's damaging or hateful; just as anybody who was gonna be grossed out by the game from the start aren't going to see any merit in what it has to offer besides titillation. As I said; it's a really niche game with a very limited audience, yet the controversy has acted like SK would have as much reach and cause as much damage as something like Blurred Lines. There's fighting sexism, and then there's warring against a thing so minor that it brings your priorities into question.

  47. D.J Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 08:04

    Anyway, N64 using carts compared to CD's is a hardware limitation and that system had more power than the PSX, making a design that takes small discs and has limited space compared to it's competition is also a hardware limitation in itself it doesn't matter if a machine is more powerful when your version of a game needs to be significantly downgraded to fit.

    Of the ports i saw during those generations, i saw nothing which would suggest that compromises had needed to be made, especially when it came to multi-platform titles.

    In fact, some of the N64 ports of PS1 titles i played were superior in terms of both graphics and gameplay, and this is coming from someone who owned/played/enjoyed both consoles.

    Only a Nintendo Homosexual would try and defend that, just saying

    What the...

  48. Balladeer Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 08:32

    47 posts already? Must be another Senran Kagura thread! Sigh.

  49. Kittens. Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 12:44

    Only a Nintendo Homosexual would try and defend that, just saying

    http://www.modernette.ca/press/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/the-hills-gif-lo-judging-you.gif

  50. bringmelights Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 12:46

    I just don't see the point in fighting this game so hard. Its audience aren't going to see eye to eye with the perception it's damaging or hateful; just as anybody who was gonna be grossed out by the game from the start aren't going to see any merit in what it has to offer besides titillation. As I said; it's a really niche game with a very limited audience, yet the controversy has acted like SK would have as much reach and cause as much damage as something like Blurred Lines. There's fighting sexism, and then there's warring against a thing so minor that it brings your priorities into question.

    Off topic, but about sexism I was honestly quite surprised to see the reaction to Blurred Lines when people chose to ignore the fact that Universal Music regularly pumps out music like:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y34jC4I1m70

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knWnMKKEt88

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEMsjeq43_U

    All UMG artists, unlike Robin Thicke they are black. Go figure.

  51. Wrathy Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 13:09

    I just don't see the point in fighting this game so hard. Its audience aren't going to see eye to eye with the perception it's damaging or hateful; just as anybody who was gonna be grossed out by the game from the start aren't going to see any merit in what it has to offer besides titillation. As I said; it's a really niche game with a very limited audience, yet the controversy has acted like SK would have as much reach and cause as much damage as something like Blurred Lines. There's fighting sexism, and then there's warring against a thing so minor that it brings your priorities into question.

    Any discussion with men about patriarchy is not wasted time. It's not as if I've gone and called all my feminist pals to join ONM and post here too to have an artifical majority of people supporting me. I'm here because... Well, i want to be tbph. I don't think I need to justify that.

  52. SilentDark Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 14:05

    Would this be the same patriarchy that obliged men to lay down their lives during the two world wars in exchange for their right to vote, or the patriarchy who gave women the right to vote without any such obligation, or (during the first world war at least) had men executed for cowardice if they refused to carry out their obligation. Would this be the patriarchy which spends around three times as much on womens health issues, or enacts "positive discrimination" on behalf of women. Or the patriachy which demonises all men as potential rapists by reminding them not to have sex with drunk girls too hammered to stand up (maybe you should also remind those girls that maybe it would be a nice idea to moderate their drinking as well, since we are dispensing obvious advice) or perhaps this is the patriarchy which takes domestic abuse by men on women really really seriously but laughs at men abused by their wives or girlfriends.

    Patriarchy, if it ever existed here in the west is long dead. We have a gynocentric system now that prioritises female interests in an increasing number of sectors. It is a weak argument that perpetuates a myth that the world is still run for the benefit of men when it isn't. This game is a niche title, it isn't expecting to sell to a mainstream audience so I really don't see the problem in some strong female characters wrapped in cheesecake. That you have trouble looking beyond the surface says more about you than the game or those who like it.

  53. Wrathy Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 14:18

    In almost seven years of reading posts on this forum, I can honestly say that ranks as one of the very worst.

  54. Metr01d Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 14:29

    To be honest, all the arguments against this still seem to boil down to "It doesn't appeal to me, therefore nobody should be allowed to enjoy it." And that post earlier saying supporting this game is the same logic as supporting rape is ridiculous.

    I'm not about to go and buy it because it doesn't look great, but I understand it's art and that it has every right to exist.

  55. 3try Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 14:57

    So what about that gameplay eh?

  56. bringmelights Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 16:01

    FYI, here's the opinion of Brittany Avery (Hatsuu), production assistant at XSEED:

    “A lot of people have been harping on Burst for being completely degrading to women in every possible way, but as a female myself who has thoroughly played the game, it’s difficult for me to say that’s 100% the case,” Avery told me. “If it were a game where the characters had no variety to their personalities and their sole purpose to the in-game plot related to fanservice and nothing more, I’d probably just delegate it to the ‘designs are cute, but this game isn’t for me’ category and never really give the game a chance. I’m not one for just playing a game for the stimulating visuals and no story.”

    In fact, she explained, the characters are “three-dimensional” young women. “In-game, they don’t go spelling it out in flashing lights or present obvious strong female clichés you see in Western movies like that one scene where a woman is suddenly knocking some one-note sexist dude upside the head to prove how badass she is along with a couple one-liners. It’s just this variety of great girls being who they are for the sake of being who they are.

    “Take Hibari, for instance. I can’t say she’s my favorite character, but she suffers from self-esteem issues throughout the story to the point where the plot takes drastic changes due to her obsession with how others close to her perceive her.” The development of her character (and the existence of a character arc, period!) changes her from what might be perceived as eye candy to someone that could be identified with. “She changes and grows quite a bit as a character, and I think there are people that can relate to her story of trying to find her place in the world.”

    Other characters like Haruka are more overtly sexy, but Avery says there’s more nuance to them as well. “When I first saw her, all I could think was ‘Oh, okay, I get it, she’s super sexy.’ Then you get to see how it’s not that she’s just sexy — she owns her sexuality. It empowers her, gives her this aura that makes her not just fanservice, but someone whose maturity and level of self-comfort demands respect.” Haruka also acts as a sort of older sister to her teammates. “I think there’s an audience that can relate to her having grown past that stage of constant confusion that’s a natural part of your teen and early twenties years.”

    Ironically, she notes, by decrying the game’s focus on boobs and ignoring the other facets of the characters, critics are themselves objectifying the characters. “It does get frustrating, because isn’t obsessively focusing on the idea that the girls in Burst are nothing more than breasts the complete opposite of what those who are against games that feature one-dimensional females or females completely second to their male leads are working to accomplish?

    “Isn’t the only thing you’re accomplishing then objectifying the characters who actually have more to offer than what’s being blatantly marketed?” She argues that if there is actual objectionable content, critics should talk about it to help make future games better, while also acknowledging the successes of characterization.

    That’s not to say that respectfully written characters are all there is to Senran Kagura Burst. “I’m also guilty of enjoying some of the more fanservice-y features of the game, only it’s more like I acknowledge that it’s sexy but personally find it cute or adorable,” Avery admitted.

    “Still, if some men and women among our audience decide to start playing it to look at the bouncing boob physics or mess around with the sexy outfits in the Dressing Room, that isn’t for me to judge,” she noted, adding “I didn’t start watching Free! Iwatobi Swim Club for the deep plot.”

    Avery acknowledges an imbalance in the marketing of fanservice toward male fans – there’s just an overwhelming majority of media aimed at straight men – while “female fanservice is more often fan-generated, but I think it’s a matter of balancing out that male/female fanservice if that’s a feature in your work rather than actively working to reduce any one side in favor of the other.” She also acknowledges the fact that different people have different comfort levels with the surface display of the game, which may prevent them from discovering the character development within.

    “I think playing it has great potential to change people’s minds,” she said, “especially since the game actually has a plot that it plays almost completely straight, but there are guaranteed to be some people who won’t see past only what they want to see.”

    In the end, then, the choice about how to feel about Senran Kagura Burst is up to the individual, preferably after becoming informed by playing it. And then, Avery suggests, those individuals should allow others to form their own opinions. “There are some who have the power to take a more neutral approach to the overall content of the game they disagree upon so others can form their own opinions but haven’t done so.

    “That, I feel, is more detrimental to Senran Kagura Burst than the actual content of the game.”

  57. Time-Bomb Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 18:17

    Arguing about something as contentious and controversial as Patriarchy and whatnot with regards to a game about cartoon ninja girls is like arguing about the state of the global economy with regards to New Super Mario Bros 2's emphasis on gold coins. It just makes everyone involved seem silly. I'm sure many people here know vaguely what they're on about, but they lose so much credibility by talking about it here.

    I'm sure I'm not the only person who reads both sides of the arguments here and can't help but put my face in my hands and think "Jeeeesus...".

  58. D.J Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 18:52

    I'm sure I'm not the only person who reads both sides of the arguments here and can't help but put my face in my hands and think "Jeeeesus...".

    If you think this is bad, you should have seen the last thread.

  59. Time-Bomb Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 18:55

    I'm sure I'm not the only person who reads both sides of the arguments here and can't help but put my face in my hands and think "Jeeeesus...".

    If you think this is bad, you should have seen the last thread.

    Haha! Oh I did! I died a little inside...

  60. E123-Fawful Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 19:42

    That last thread was STILL going on. But at a much slower rate.

  61. bringmelights Saturday 1st Mar 2014 at 19:55

    To be honest, all the arguments against this still seem to boil down to "It doesn't appeal to me, therefore nobody should be allowed to enjoy it." And that post earlier saying supporting this game is the same logic as supporting rape is ridiculous.

    I'm not about to go and buy it because it doesn't look great, but I understand it's art and that it has every right to exist.

    I agree with everything you've said.

  62. robbiebob2 Sunday 2nd Mar 2014 at 12:54

    Great the same conversation as last time.


    Here we unfortunately go again.

  63. Cribster Sunday 2nd Mar 2014 at 13:11

    herewegoagain.jpg

    I should read article comments more

  64. Jazzer94 Sunday 2nd Mar 2014 at 13:48

    A part of me died seeing this same asinine argument about an incredibly niche game that will most likely never sell more than 10000 copies, I mean pick your battles guys and just let who ever brought this enjoy it. :(

  65. jdofthefunk Sunday 2nd Mar 2014 at 14:13

    Wibbly wobbly time-y wimey stuff. By which I mean that this entire debate has already been held on a separate post. If we really need to whine about Senran being sexist or ruining the industry over and over again, could we at least keep it to one ridiculously long thread?

  66. Pyri80 Sunday 2nd Mar 2014 at 14:45

    I have no idea what your point is, but my entire point is that money made based on the exploitation of people or overly sexualised and damagingly oppressive representations thereof is not money made through a system that I'm willing to support. The system is what creates and perpetuates inequality and leads directly to the oppression of non male non straight non etc people. The system is failing the majority of the population.

    Nintendo has a long history in degrading women to "damsels in distress" or emphasizing capitalism by the use of aggressive and greedy male figures like Wario, or just look at all those gold coins in "New Super Mario Bros. 2". No, saying that video games are no place to talk about patriarchy or capitalism is like saying video games are an inferior art form. It's not ridiculous but very necessary.
    Yet I'm certainly in a minority here. And now, why exactly are therefore you, as a majority holder, Nintendo of Europe, Future Press, or only this magazine, oppressing myself?

    You cannot "oversexualize" something that already IS sexual. You obviously do not even recognize that.
    It's like demanding not to "overyellow" a yellow flower when the flower was already yellow in its natural state. You can criticise the game for its aesthetics, but what you do is criticising the sexuality in others, socially excluding people with the "rights" of a majority violating those of minorities.

    I don't like the fact that Japanese erotica is very often using a fetish with big-breasted women as sometimes the only differentiator to children, yet I couldn't discriminate those portrayals in good conscience either. I may not like their looks, but there are also big-breasted women really living in this world!
    And what you do is embracing solely "normality". Are "normal" portrays of "normal" people.

    Whatever gender you may recognize in them, if only biological differences: you say that normally people are not sexual, and that's true. At least for most people.
    Yet it's also you that want certain body representations, and want other types not. It's you that want to dictate how people should be portrayed or dressed in media, like video games.

    And by that, it's also you that describes therefore certain patriarchal stances in covering up female bodies, reducing uncovered women to "ownership", at least a privilege, of their male (perhaps only female too) partners, but certainly not in a public interest if they are willing to expose themselves or creatives are willing to draw, paint or render such portrayals. It's you that want to get rid of sexuality in the public space, at least regarding unwant images of female body types. And if you are really emphasizing on biological differences, it makes everything even more worse.
    Because then, there also even exists a biological public that should not get used to seeing images they are "normally" not allowed to see. Like watching female bodies uncovered.

    Not on themselves or others, because therefore you also dictate how they should look at themselves. You dictate their gender because a "male" who wants to look at women cannot be a "female" and so on.
    Not long ago, here in Central Europe handicapped persons like myself were killed because of such biologistic notions. So here is also political and historical responsibility there, and you should question yourself: about what "people", what "majorities", are you talking here exactly?

    A part of me died seeing this same asinine argument about an incredibly niche game that will most likely never sell more than 10000 copies, (...)

    Niches are always the victims of such arguments. Just look at how the whole topic is brought up here: there's a lot of talk about general terms, gender suggesting the game wants to look at women as a whole, connotations, public interests, majorities. Even the industry itself, which would get "damaged" if people are enjoying such stuff, their bodies or sexuality which differentiate from social norms, considering them as harmful or pathologic -

  67. laughingjumpman Monday 3rd Mar 2014 at 09:22

    http://www.destructoid.com/senran-kagur ... 1305.phtml

    Probably just feeding the argument here, but this is the ad for the game. Got to love the image they have of their audience.

    Entirely aside from all the arguments left and right about sexism, as a bloke it just makes me cringe a bit, and confirms my own reasons for not wanting to buy the game.

  68. D.J Monday 3rd Mar 2014 at 19:13

    Got to love the image they have of their audience..

    The guy in the ad is a little too old to be their true target demographic though.

  69. bringmelights Tuesday 4th Mar 2014 at 19:24

    Got to love the image they have of their audience..

    The guy in the ad is a little too old to be their true target demographic though.

    I don't know it's probably about right, the weeaboo anime loving crowd is aging.

  70. SilentDark Tuesday 4th Mar 2014 at 20:03

    Got to love the image they have of their audience..

    The guy in the ad is a little too old to be their true target demographic though.

    The demographic for the manga is Seinen, generally men fron the age of 17 to mid 30s early 40s. Given the game is rated 16 that sounds around right.

    As for the image of the audience, maybe it says more about their critics who behave in a reactionary manner rather that do any true research into the product.

  71. LewiiG Thursday 6th Mar 2014 at 21:58

    Not again, god please no. Just stop this stupid argument over this game nowwwwwww.

    On a related note, I got this game and it's awesome! Perfect for me. Of course it would be a marmite game, it has a bit of a limited audience over here. I predicted ONM would give it 70% in the other thread and hey I was about right. And mmm that preorder poster was more awesome than I expected. A rare treat of a game from Japan that I am glad to own.

  72. oneofakind_055 Thursday 6th Mar 2014 at 22:54

    http://www.destructoid.com/senran-kagura-burst-commercial-likens-it-to-pornography-271305.phtml

    Got to love the image they have of their audience..

    If anything, this is same tongue-in-cheek humor that I've seen in other commercials. The Japanese commercial for Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 was folks bouncing their heads up and down with the sixaxis controls to Ayane's chest moving with the motion controls.

    And honestly, if folks are still throwing hissy fits over Burst, God help them if they ever saw stuff from Shinovi Versus. That takes some of the fanservice in this game and goes even further to go along with the improved gameplay on a "stronger" hardware that is the Vita. One example is having a pair of fraternal twins added to the roster. One (Ryoubi) is a sadist who is also self-conscious about her smaller bust, that she purposely gives herself larger breasts in her transformed state. The other (Ryouna) is a huge masochist that likes to flaunt her chest around.

    But just like Burst, Shinovi Versus' story arcs also cover multiple subjects to go along with gameplay. Gessen Girls' School, one of the two new teams introduced in that game, had a story where the girls were forced to reevaluate what they were taught and believed in regards to good and evil, and maybe it's more gray than black and white with ninjas both good and bad. At the same time, they were conflicted about how they felt about Kurokage, who was a father figure for all of them that started training them.

  73. Deep4t Wednesday 12th Mar 2014 at 00:33

    There's a reason everyone hates feminists.

  74. Theo81 Friday 14th Mar 2014 at 11:28

    Would this be the same patriarchy that obliged men to lay down their lives during the two world wars in exchange for their right to vote,

    Men could vote long before the war, and it would be the patriarchy which wouldn't allow women to join the army - they were denied the choice to fight. And women did fight, and they did die. Just not on the front lines with a gun in their hands.

    or the patriarchy who gave women the right to vote without any such obligation,

    "Congratulations! We're going to let you be ALMOST as good as us men! Now naff off and make us a sandwich"?

    or (during the first world war at least) had men executed for cowardice if they refused to carry out their obligation.

    See above regarding women not being allowed to be cowards.

    Would this be the patriarchy which spends around three times as much on womens health issues,

    Source?

    or enacts "positive discrimination" on behalf of women.

    Source? Changing working environments to encourage or enable women to be part of them is not positive discrimination. Also, no business thrives from employing only public school clones. Variety is a good thing.


    Or the patriachy which demonises all men as potential rapists by reminding them not to have sex with drunk girls too hammered to stand up (maybe you should also remind those girls that maybe it would be a nice idea to moderate their drinking as well, since we are dispensing obvious advice)

    I can't even ...

    For most of my life I've been told that if I get raped it's my fault for having a drink, or walking home on my own, or wearing a short skirt, or 1000 other reasons which basically equate to if I get raped, it's because I'm a female who exists - or because I wasn't carrying a whistle. My female brain has problems remembering all this stuff sometimes.

    If you have sex with somebody who doesn't consent, that's rape. It's not complicated (think of it as like having sex with a 14 year old, in the eyes of the law they cannot consent because they are underage), and yet we need posters reminding men of this. The continuing need for these posters is shown by your comment here and I really, really recommend you put this angle of the topic down and step away from the giant hole of ignorance you are about to fall into.


    or perhaps this is the patriarchy which takes domestic abuse by men on women really really seriously but laughs at men abused by their wives or girlfriends.

    Yes. It is the patriarchy which causes this. The Patriarchy is responsible both for the demand of feminising women, and masculising men. Men aren't supposed to cry, or show emotion, or be hit. Look at our language. "Man up", "Don't be such a girl". To be a man who acts like a girl - including by being abused - is something negative and terrible. To be female is terrible. That doesn't come from feminism.

    Patriarchy, if it ever existed here in the west is long dead.

    Really? Go and read Everyday Sexism. I'll wait.

    We have a gynocentric system now that prioritises female interests in an increasing number of sectors.

    I'd dispute your use of the word "prioritises", but it's sectors where female interests aren't well represented. What's wrong with that?

    It is a weak argument that perpetuates a myth that the world is still run for the benefit of men when it isn't.

    That's not the argument. The argument is that things like this game, the casual sexism, the objectification, can exist and when people complain, they're told it's not so bad, or that *other game with the same issues* exists so where's the problem?

    You don't appear to have the first idea of what it's like the be female. Your post does not show any awareness of the simple nonsense I have to deal with every single day of my life. Award winning SF writer John Scalzi wrote an excellent blog post which likened being a straight white male to playing a game on its easiest setting: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

    I'd also recommend reading the male privilage checklist:http://amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/ It's a little outdated because a couple of the points are beginning to change, but it's still an excellent starting point.

    I've been playing games for 25 years. The representation of women has always been a problem.

  75. robbiebob2 Saturday 15th Mar 2014 at 10:12

    Only a Nintendo Homosexual would try and defend that, just saying

    I'm gay and I am offended by this particulary the bit ' only a nintendo homosexual' I didn't know certain gay people are a nintendo.

    The 60's need you.

  76. Tailisjoy Saturday 15th Mar 2014 at 10:46

    Shut up Meg.

    For all the people saying no one objects to the depiction of the female lead in Bayonetta, did you have your heads up your bums when there were people complaining? I recall complaints about it, and the arguments put back and forth. There were similar objections to the depiction of Quiet running around in a bikini in a war zone. Dead or Alive has been panned for its depiction of women. Let's not pretend this game has been singled out for how it depicts women. I will openly admit I haven't played it, but I have seen imagery associated with it and it is fair to say it isn't representative of a group of women but a stylized depiction aimed to illicit a response. The characters might themselves be deep. But it matters not when visually they are designed purely to titillate.

    http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZVGKcOAHL._SX300_.jpg

    This is not an image taken out of context, it is the cover by which one is enticed to purchase the game. If anyone wants to say that it doesn't objectify women go ahead. You'll be wrong, but feel free. And don't give me that baloney about cultural differences. It is being sold outside of that culture to a different culture. Some games in the past have shown respect to those cultures by editing the content so as to avoid causing offence. Now there is an argument that you shouldn't compromise an artistic vision, and I would subscribe to that. But if there is an artistic vision here it is questionable.

  77. robbiebob2 Saturday 15th Mar 2014 at 10:59

    Reported.

  78. Tailisjoy Saturday 15th Mar 2014 at 11:04

    Reported.


    Cool. ;)

  79. SilentDark Saturday 15th Mar 2014 at 12:35

    Would this be the same patriarchy that obliged men to lay down their lives during the two world wars in exchange for their right to vote,

    Men could vote long before the war, and it would be the patriarchy which wouldn't allow women to join the army - they were denied the choice to fight. And women did fight, and they did die. Just not on the front lines with a gun in their hands.

    I wasn't saying men couldn't vote before the war. I'm saying that going to war was an expectation of having those rights.

    or the patriarchy who gave women the right to vote without any such obligation,

    "Congratulations! We're going to let you be ALMOST as good as us men! Now naff off and make us a sandwich"?

    Yes, so almost good we'll risk our lives so you don't have to, no gynocentrism there. You might also want to research the white feather campaign in which women (including feminists) shamed men into joing the war effort.

    or (during the first world war at least) had men executed for cowardice if they refused to carry out their obligation.

    See above regarding women not being allowed to be cowards.
    Again, rights but no responsibility

    Would this be the patriarchy which spends around three times as much on womens health issues,

    Source?

    http://katatrepsis.com/2012/10/30/why-does-breast-cancer-research-receive-more-research-funding-than-prostate-cancer/

    or enacts "positive discrimination" on behalf of women.

    Source? Changing working environments to encourage or enable women to be part of them is not positive discrimination. Also, no business thrives from employing only public school clones. Variety is a good thing.

    Someone has never heard of women only shortlists, or those equality surveys which are actually designed to make sure that companies have the right "balance" of women/ethnic minorities. In my mind, your ability to perform the job should be the only consideration.

    or perhaps this is the patriarchy which takes domestic abuse by men on women really really seriously but laughs at men abused by their wives or girlfriends.

    Yes. It is the patriarchy which causes this. The Patriarchy is responsible both for the demand of feminising women, and masculising men. Men aren't supposed to cry, or show emotion, or be hit. Look at our language. "Man up", "Don't be such a girl". To be a man who acts like a girl - including by being abused - is something negative and terrible. To be female is terrible. That doesn't come from feminism.

    Is it also the Patriarchy which gives women softer sentences for the same crimes, or makes excuses for women. To be female can't be so terrible when the responsibility of everything is on the shoulders of men.

    Patriarchy, if it ever existed here in the west is long dead.

    Really? Go and read Everyday Sexism. I'll wait.

    No thanks, Patriarchy is an invisible enemy created to give feminists something to complain about, in a Patriarchal society, women would have never gotten any of the rights they now enjoy.

    We have a gynocentric system now that prioritises female interests in an increasing number of sectors.

    I'd dispute your use of the word "prioritises", but it's sectors where female interests aren't well represented. What's wrong with that?
    Well, if men and women are really as equal as you believe, you really shouldn't need any help to get anywhere in life.

    It is a weak argument that perpetuates a myth that the world is still run for the benefit of men when it isn't.

    That's not the argument. The argument is that things like this game, the casual sexism, the objectification, can exist and when people complain, they're told it's not so bad, or that *other game with the same issues* exists so where's the problem?
    Have you played this game. Do you know the first thing about the characters, their motivations and personalities. No of course you don't. You saw breasts and that was that, no further investigation needed. So who exactly is the one doing the objectification?

    You don't appear to have the first idea of what it's like the be female. As I am a man, on that we can agree.Your post does not show any awareness of the simple nonsense I have to deal with every single day of my life. I'll probably need more details, I deal with quite a bit of nonsense myself you know. Award winning SF writer John Scalzi wrote an excellent blog post which likened being a straight white male to playing a game on its easiest setting: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/
    Really, because I am a white straight male. Nothing is actually handed to me. Ever.

    I'd also recommend reading the male privilage checklist:http://amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/ It's a little outdated because a couple of the points are beginning to change, but it's still an excellent starting point.
    Male privilege, why women can make excuses for their failures.Edit: I've been going through that checklist. Seems like it was created during the Victorian era because I can't find a single modern relevancy now. I'd go through it all but this post is long enough as it is.
    I've been playing games for 25 years. The representation of women has always been a problem. Yes, I'm amazed women got any rights with videogames turning us all into rampant misogynists

  80. Tailisjoy Saturday 15th Mar 2014 at 14:56

    I still can't believe we gave them the vote.

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